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Thread: The origin of the Gravettians: genomic evidence from a 36,000-year-old Eastern Europe

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    The origin of the Gravettians: genomic evidence from a 36,000-year-old Eastern Europe

    Why hasn't a thread started on the Gravettian genome? It's surprising.. the quiteness or lack of interest.
    Last edited by ren; 07-02-2019 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ren View Post
    the whiteness or lack of interest.
    The what now?

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    Well, the mt-hg pre-N1b was pretty noteworthy. But such low autosomal coverage it's hard to determine anything.
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    Kale, did you ever run a comparison to see the source of Ibermaurusians West Eurasian? is it more Gravettian associated as I postulated? or more Anatolian HG?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    The what now?
    He means "witness"

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    VytautusofAukstaitija - Definitely not Anatolian HG. Gravettian maybe, but it appears to have ANE like WHG do (though a small probability of noise/fluke must be acknowledged because it would only be like 4%). Aurignacian influence appears to be significant (or not depending on how you look at it); Taforalt's West-Eurasian ancestors had about as much as LaBrana. Additionally Taforalt doesn't share less drift with WHG despite WHG having ANE, so I think proto-WHG would be more accurate.
    Last edited by Kale; 07-02-2019 at 05:21 AM.
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    It's like Anatolia HG. Probably more like Dzudzuana. Definitely not Gravettian.

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    To know the origin of Gravettians, we need aDNA older than Gravettian. We only have only 2 AMH genomes older than Buran-Kaya III: Oase and Ust-Ishim, and both are not Gravettian ancestors.
    Hopefully, we will get some new results from ME, hopefully older than 40k ybp.

    I am usually sceptical about all those catastrophe scenarious, but it looks like that is what we have in Europe:
    - first AMH get to Europe about 45k ybp, they coexist with Neanderthals until 39k;
    - volcanoes erupt, most both Oase-like AMH and late Neanderthals die out in Europe;
    - after some time a new wave from ME of Gravettian people comes, they do not get any additional admixture from Neanderthals or other archaics.

    I am pretty shocked. Quite recently there were so many results for Neanderthals younger than 39k ybp, up to 25k ybp (and many of them from Crimea), but now it turns out all of them were just dating errors.

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    That N1b is interesting as another Gravettian (Paglicci 23 IIRC) was once considered N*, which Jean Manco considered a fluke.

    Another thing. All papers consider Villabruna cluster a pristine lineage. If that would be the case the appearance of this lineage in the Epigravettian must be a migration into Italy. That raises the question where they originated. This paper makes clear that 36,000 years ago there wasn't any Villabruna even near the North Pontic steppe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    To know the origin of Gravettians, we need aDNA older than Gravettian. We only have only 2 AMH genomes older than Buran-Kaya III: Oase and Ust-Ishim, and both are not Gravettian ancestors.
    Hopefully, we will get some new results from ME, hopefully older than 40k ybp.
    Kostenki14 is older and looks pretty much like an ancestor. Or at least part of a population that could be ancestral.

    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    I am usually sceptical about all those catastrophe scenarious, but it looks like that is what we have in Europe:
    - first AMH get to Europe about 45k ybp, they coexist with Neanderthals until 39k;
    - volcanoes erupt, most both Oase-like AMH and late Neanderthals die out in Europe;
    - after some time a new wave from ME of Gravettian people comes, they do not get any additional admixture from Neanderthals or other archaics.

    I am pretty shocked. Quite recently there were so many results for Neanderthals younger than 39k ybp, up to 25k ybp (and many of them from Crimea), but now it turns out all of them were just dating errors.
    Both the disappearance of the Uluzian and the Oase 1 ancestry can be tracked to the CI eruption. Also, there are signs that it had a massive impact on wild life.
    Last edited by epoch; 07-02-2019 at 06:10 AM.

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