# Thread: I want to run an ancient Nordic/Scandinavian model in R

1. firemonkey has British and Irish ancestry, so he should have viking ancestors. It should be possible to measure this relative to other British and Irish people, and answer a different question, "is his viking ancestry higher or lower than the population average?"

The formal papers showed that the B&I people are equally related to Swedish, but deferentially related to Norwegians, and they explained this by varying levels of Viking admixture in the populations. I think we can estimate this in G25. When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.

Checking the euclidean distance scores in PAST3 I can his Swedish ancestry is higher than average for Britain. He scores like a very northern British person.

We may be missing Danes. Are Danes closer to Norwegians or Swedish?

2. ## The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Garvan For This Useful Post:

firemonkey (07-06-2019),  Jessie (07-06-2019),  JonikW (07-06-2019),  timberwolf (07-06-2019)

3. Originally Posted by Garvan
firemonkey has British and Irish ancestry, so he should have viking ancestors. It should be possible to measure this relative to other British and Irish people, and answer a different question, "is his viking ancestry higher or lower than the population average?"

The formal papers showed that the B&I people are equally related to Swedish, but deferentially related to Norwegians, and they explained this by varying levels of Viking admixture in the populations. I think we can estimate this in G25. When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.

Checking the euclidean distance scores in PAST3 I can his Swedish ancestry is higher than average for Britain. He scores like a very northern British person.

We may be missing Danes. Are Danes closer to Norwegians or Swedish?
Thanks for doing that. With Poi's calculators I get more Norwegian than Swedish. My father gets Swedish but only noise levels of Norwegian. With Ancestry dna upload to My heritage I get Norway 140 Sweden 75 Denmark 46. My father's FTDNA upload to My heritage Norway 79 Sweden 63 Denmark 36 .

I tend to get more Icelandic than either Norway and Swedish. With checkfit scaled :

13 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 2.059
49 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.461
98 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.764

34 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 2.765
138 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Swedish_Averaged Averaged 3.332
157 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 3.413

Checkfit unscaled

9 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.277
106 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.759
118 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Swedish_Averaged Averaged 1.796

7 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.439
77 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Swedish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
182 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.128

4. ## The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to firemonkey For This Useful Post:

Tats (07-08-2019),  timberwolf (07-06-2019)

5. Originally Posted by firemonkey
Well, I 've tried your latest Roman-medieval calculator with R.

[1] "distance%=0.9026"

Tim_G

CELTIC,37
GERMANIC,24.8
LONGOBARD,19.8
VIKING-WEST,7.2
VIKING,6.2

AQUITANIAN,2.2
CELTIBERIAN,2
LUSITANIAN,0.4
EGYPT,0.2
IBERIAN,0.2

[1] "distance%=0.6712"

Tim_G_father

CELTIC,36.4
LONGOBARD,31.8
VIKING,13.8
GERMANIC,6.6
VIKING-WEST,4
AQUITANIAN,2.4
CELTIBERIAN,2
VIKING-EAST,0.8
PRE-VIKING,0.6

IBERIAN,0.4
LEVANTINE,0.4
TARTESSIAN,0.4
BALTIC,0.2
LUSITANIAN,0.2

I'm not at all sure about the Longobard.

With Poi's free form runner-

"sample": "Test1:Tim_G",
"fit": 0.9049,
"CELTIC_England_Roman": 33,
"GERMANIC_England_Anglo-Saxon": 26.2,
"LONGOBARD__ITA_Collegno_MA": 20.2,
"VIKING_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 5.2,
"CELTIC_England_IA": 4.6,
"VIKING-WEST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 3.6,
"VIKING-WEST_FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o": 2.4,

"CELTIBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES": 2,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_North_IA": 0.8,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0.6,
"GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval": 0.4,
"LUSITANIAN_Iberia_East_IA": 0.4,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0.2,
"IBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE": 0.2,
"SOUTH-AMERICAN_PER_Laramate_900BP": 0.2,
"ALANIC_RUS_Alan_MA": 0,
"ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA": 0,
"ANDAMAN_Great_Andamanese_100BP": 0,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_RomP": 0,
"AQUITANIAN_Levant_LBN_MA_Euro": 0,
"ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA": 0,
"BALTIC-INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
"BALTIC_Baltic_EST_MA": 0,
"BALTIC_Baltic_LTU_LateA": 0,
"CANARIAN_Canary_Islands_Guanche": 0,
"CELTIC_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0,
"DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o": 0,
"EGYPT_Egypt_Hellenistic": 0,
"GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
"GRECO-ROMAN_DEU_MA_o": 0,
"GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno": 0,
"GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1": 0,
"HIMALAYAN_NPL_Samdzong_1500BP": 0,
"HUNNIC_Hun_Tian_Shan": 0,
"IBERIAN_Germany_Roman": 0,
"IBERIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
"ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA": 0,
"ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Scythian_Moldova": 0,
"ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN__Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
"INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
"JAPANESE_Jomon": 0,
"KANGJU_KAZ_Kangju": 0,
"LEVANTINE_Eng_Rom_Near_Eastern_o": 0,
"LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE": 0,
"LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_Roman": 0,
"NORTH_AMERICAN_USA_NM_Chaco": 0,
"NORTH_URALIC_Levanluhta_IA": 0,
"OTTOMAN_Anatolia_Ottoman": 0,
"PACIFIC_VUT_1300BP_all": 0,
"PRE-VIKING_SWE_IA": 0,
"SLAVIC_CZE_Early_Slav": 0,
"SLAVIC_Sunghir_Medieval": 0,
"SOUTHEAST-AFRICAN_KEN_Pastoral_N": 0,
"SOUTHEAST-ASIAN_Thailand_IA": 0,
"SOUTH_AFRICAN_ZAF_2000BP": 0,
"TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE": 0,
"TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE": 0,
"TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
"VIKING-EAST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
"VIKING-FINNIC_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
"VIKING-PRUSSIAN_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
"VISIGOTH_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0,

"sample": "Test1:Tim_G_father",
"fit": 0.6722,
"CELTIC_England_Roman": 37,
"LONGOBARD__ITA_Collegno_MA": 27.2,
"VIKING_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 13.6,
"GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval": 4,
"GERMANIC_England_Anglo-Saxon": 2.8,
"VIKING-WEST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 2.8,
"CELTIBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES": 2.6,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_North_IA": 1.6,
"VIKING-WEST_FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o": 1.4,
"VIKING-EAST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 1
,
"IBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE": 0.6,
"LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_Roman": 0.4,
"LUSITANIAN_Iberia_East_IA": 0.4,
"CANARIAN_Canary_Islands_Guanche": 0.2,
"CELTIC_England_IA": 0.2,
"EGYPT_Egypt_Hellenistic": 0.2,
"LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE": 0.2,
"ALANIC_RUS_Alan_MA": 0,
"ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA": 0,
"ANDAMAN_Great_Andamanese_100BP": 0,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_RomP": 0,
"AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0,
"AQUITANIAN_Levant_LBN_MA_Euro": 0,
"ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA": 0,
"BALTIC-INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
"BALTIC_Baltic_EST_MA": 0,
"BALTIC_Baltic_LTU_LateA": 0,
"CELTIC_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0,
"DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o": 0,
"GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
"GRECO-ROMAN_DEU_MA_o": 0,
"GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno": 0,
"GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1": 0,
"HIMALAYAN_NPL_Samdzong_1500BP": 0,
"HUNNIC_Hun_Tian_Shan": 0,
"IBERIAN_Germany_Roman": 0,
"IBERIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
"ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA": 0,
"ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Scythian_Moldova": 0,
"ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN__Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
"INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
"JAPANESE_Jomon": 0,
"KANGJU_KAZ_Kangju": 0,
"LEVANTINE_Eng_Rom_Near_Eastern_o": 0,
"NORTH_AMERICAN_USA_NM_Chaco": 0,
"NORTH_URALIC_Levanluhta_IA": 0,
"OTTOMAN_Anatolia_Ottoman": 0,
"PACIFIC_VUT_1300BP_all": 0,
"PRE-VIKING_SWE_IA": 0,
"SLAVIC_CZE_Early_Slav": 0,
"SLAVIC_Sunghir_Medieval": 0,
"SOUTH-AMERICAN_PER_Laramate_900BP": 0,
"SOUTHEAST-AFRICAN_KEN_Pastoral_N": 0,
"SOUTHEAST-ASIAN_Thailand_IA": 0,
"SOUTH_AFRICAN_ZAF_2000BP": 0,
"TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE": 0,
"TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE": 0,
"TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
"VIKING-FINNIC_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
"VIKING-PRUSSIAN_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
"VISIGOTH_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0,
This is what I got using that model. Your fit is closer than mine.

"sample": "Test1:Jessie_scaled",
"fit": 1.3622,
"England_Saxon_I0159": 37.5,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_grt035": 19.17,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL93": 14.17,
"England_Saxon_I0157": 9.17,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL92": 7.5,
"England_Saxon_I0773": 4.17,
"England_Saxon_I0777": 1.67,
"England_Saxon_NO3423": 1.67,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL151": 1.67,
"DEU_MA_ACD_STR_310": 0.83,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL53": 0.83,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL57": 0.83,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_kls001": 0.83,

6. ## The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jessie For This Useful Post:

firemonkey (07-06-2019),  timberwolf (07-06-2019)

7. Accepting that My true ancestry may not be fit for purpose:

6. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (5.726) - ORE-A1
8. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (1000 AD) (6.043) - VDP-A6
10. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (6.421) - 97029
11. Late Medieval Gotlander (1600 AD) (6.611) - Unknown
19. Icelander Late Medieval (1650 AD) (7.344) - KOV-A2
21. Saxon Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) (7.561) - GRS-A1
22. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (7.87) - stg021
23. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (7.885) - GTE-A
26. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (8.047) - Sigtuna stg021
29. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (8.231) - SSG-A4
31. Viking Norse Iceland (935 AD) (8.302) - KNS-A1
36. Gaelic Child Viking Iceland (935 AD) (8.493) - YGS-B2
40. Viking Celtic Mix Sweden (1100 AD) (8.699) - Sigtuna grt035
55. Viking Norse Iceland (935 AD) (10.14) - DKS-A1
56. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (10.15) - FSS-A1
58. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (10.26) - SVK-A1
60. Viking Norse Iceland (935 AD) (10.29) - SSJ-A2

8. Where my father and I rank as custom users .

Scaled . Norwegian -Me 7th ,Father not in top 25
Swedish - Me 9th, Father 15th
Icelandic- Me 3rd, Father 14th

Unscaled - Norwegian- Me 16th, Father not in top 23
Swedish- Me 17th, Father 20th
Icelandic - Me 5th, Father 10th

9. Originally Posted by Garvan
When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.
I'm struggling to follow your reasoning. 30/127 would suggest there are 76.4% of B&I samples lower than me . How then do I have less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry?

10. Originally Posted by Garvan
firemonkey has British and Irish ancestry, so he should have viking ancestors. It should be possible to measure this relative to other British and Irish people, and answer a different question, "is his viking ancestry higher or lower than the population average?"

The formal papers showed that the B&I people are equally related to Swedish, but deferentially related to Norwegians, and they explained this by varying levels of Viking admixture in the populations. I think we can estimate this in G25. When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.

Checking the euclidean distance scores in PAST3 I can his Swedish ancestry is higher than average for Britain. He scores like a very northern British person.

We may be missing Danes. Are Danes closer to Norwegians or Swedish?
I believe the study done on Danish DNA indicated that Danes are more similar to Swedes than Norwegians.

11. ## The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

Jessie (07-06-2019),  JMcB (07-06-2019)

12. Webrunner scaled

"sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey",
"fit": 0.7859,
"Irish": 28,
"Scottish": 26.4,
"English": 24.2,
"Icelandic": 3.2,
"Norwegian": 2.8,

"Swedish": 1.8,

"sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father",
"fit": 1.3243,
"English": 55.2,
"Scottish": 30.6,
"Irish": 8,
"Swedish": 3.6,
"Icelandic": 2.6,

"Norwegian": 0,

Unscaled

"sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey",
"fit": 0.4772,
"Irish": 41.4,
"English": 17.4,
"Scottish": 14.4,
"Icelandic": 2,
"Swedish": 1,
"Norwegian": 0.2,

"sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father",
"fit": 0.7041,
"Scottish": 29.6,
"English": 24.4,
"Icelandic": 4.6,
"Irish": 4.6,
"Swedish": 4.2,
"Norwegian": 0,

13. ## The Following User Says Thank You to firemonkey For This Useful Post:

Nino90 (07-06-2019)

14. Originally Posted by Jessie
This is what I got using that model. Your fit is closer than mine.

"sample": "Test1:Jessie_scaled",
"fit": 1.3622,
"England_Saxon_I0159": 37.5,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_grt035": 19.17,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL93": 14.17,
"England_Saxon_I0157": 9.17,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL92": 7.5,
"England_Saxon_I0773": 4.17,
"England_Saxon_I0777": 1.67,
"England_Saxon_NO3423": 1.67,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL151": 1.67,
"DEU_MA_ACD_STR_310": 0.83,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL53": 0.83,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_CL57": 0.83,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_kls001": 0.83,
Hello Jesse,

I know that you know this but for the benefit of others, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that Sigtuna_vik_grt035 is a very British & Irish like sample. As can be seen by his Fit Check.

01 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.834
03 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.981
04 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 2.011
05 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish_Averaged Averaged 2.057
06 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.077
07 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish Irish51 Modern; 2.111
08 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 English_Cornwall HG00243 Modern; 2.153
09 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Welsh WAL001 Modern; 2.161
10 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 English_Averaged Averaged 2.162

And, if I remember correctly, he plots among the British & Irish, not with the Swedes or Scandinavians. So I’m not sure how useful he is as a comparison, in a situation like this.

15. ## The Following User Says Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

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16. Another very British one. Scaled.

SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002

Input Group Name Details Fit
1 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 English HG02215 Modern; 3.391
2 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 English HG01789 Modern; 3.44
3 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 Scottish Scottish21 Modern; 3.481
4 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 Orcadian HGDP00799 Modern; 3.497

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JMcB (07-06-2019)

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