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Thread: I want to run an ancient Nordic/Scandinavian model in R

  1. #11
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    firemonkey has British and Irish ancestry, so he should have viking ancestors. It should be possible to measure this relative to other British and Irish people, and answer a different question, "is his viking ancestry higher or lower than the population average?"

    The formal papers showed that the B&I people are equally related to Swedish, but deferentially related to Norwegians, and they explained this by varying levels of Viking admixture in the populations. I think we can estimate this in G25. When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.

    Checking the euclidean distance scores in PAST3 I can his Swedish ancestry is higher than average for Britain. He scores like a very northern British person.

    We may be missing Danes. Are Danes closer to Norwegians or Swedish?
    Last edited by Garvan; 07-06-2019 at 09:12 AM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvan View Post
    firemonkey has British and Irish ancestry, so he should have viking ancestors. It should be possible to measure this relative to other British and Irish people, and answer a different question, "is his viking ancestry higher or lower than the population average?"

    The formal papers showed that the B&I people are equally related to Swedish, but deferentially related to Norwegians, and they explained this by varying levels of Viking admixture in the populations. I think we can estimate this in G25. When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.

    Checking the euclidean distance scores in PAST3 I can his Swedish ancestry is higher than average for Britain. He scores like a very northern British person.

    We may be missing Danes. Are Danes closer to Norwegians or Swedish?
    Thanks for doing that. With Poi's calculators I get more Norwegian than Swedish. My father gets Swedish but only noise levels of Norwegian. With Ancestry dna upload to My heritage I get Norway 140 Sweden 75 Denmark 46. My father's FTDNA upload to My heritage Norway 79 Sweden 63 Denmark 36 .

    I tend to get more Icelandic than either Norway and Swedish. With checkfit scaled :

    13 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 2.059
    49 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.461
    98 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.764

    34 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 2.765
    138 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Swedish_Averaged Averaged 3.332
    157 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 3.413

    Checkfit unscaled

    9 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.277
    106 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.759
    118 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey Swedish_Averaged Averaged 1.796

    7 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.439
    77 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Swedish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
    182 Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.128
    Last edited by firemonkey; 07-06-2019 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Add more content
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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    Well, I 've tried your latest Roman-medieval calculator with R.


    [1] "distance%=0.9026"

    Tim_G

    CELTIC,37
    GERMANIC,24.8
    LONGOBARD,19.8
    VIKING-WEST,7.2
    VIKING,6.2

    AQUITANIAN,2.2
    CELTIBERIAN,2
    LUSITANIAN,0.4
    EGYPT,0.2
    IBERIAN,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.6712"

    Tim_G_father

    CELTIC,36.4
    LONGOBARD,31.8
    VIKING,13.8
    GERMANIC,6.6
    VIKING-WEST,4
    AQUITANIAN,2.4
    CELTIBERIAN,2
    VIKING-EAST,0.8
    PRE-VIKING,0.6

    IBERIAN,0.4
    LEVANTINE,0.4
    TARTESSIAN,0.4
    BALTIC,0.2
    LUSITANIAN,0.2


    I'm not at all sure about the Longobard.


    With Poi's free form runner-


    "sample": "Test1:Tim_G",
    "fit": 0.9049,
    "CELTIC_England_Roman": 33,
    "GERMANIC_England_Anglo-Saxon": 26.2,
    "LONGOBARD__ITA_Collegno_MA": 20.2,
    "VIKING_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 5.2,
    "CELTIC_England_IA": 4.6,
    "VIKING-WEST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 3.6,
    "VIKING-WEST_FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o": 2.4,

    "CELTIBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES": 2,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_North_IA": 0.8,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0.6,
    "GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval": 0.4,
    "LUSITANIAN_Iberia_East_IA": 0.4,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0.2,
    "IBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE": 0.2,
    "SOUTH-AMERICAN_PER_Laramate_900BP": 0.2,
    "ALANIC_RUS_Alan_MA": 0,
    "ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA": 0,
    "ANDAMAN_Great_Andamanese_100BP": 0,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_RomP": 0,
    "AQUITANIAN_Levant_LBN_MA_Euro": 0,
    "ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA": 0,
    "BALTIC-INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
    "BALTIC_Baltic_EST_MA": 0,
    "BALTIC_Baltic_LTU_LateA": 0,
    "CANARIAN_Canary_Islands_Guanche": 0,
    "CELTIC_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0,
    "DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o": 0,
    "EGYPT_Egypt_Hellenistic": 0,
    "GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_DEU_MA_o": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_Hungary_Medieval_Szolad": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1": 0,
    "HIMALAYAN_NPL_Samdzong_1500BP": 0,
    "HUNNIC_Hun_Tian_Shan": 0,
    "IBERIAN_Germany_Roman": 0,
    "IBERIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Hungary_Medieval_Szolad": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Scythian_Moldova": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN__Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
    "INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
    "JAPANESE_Jomon": 0,
    "KANGJU_KAZ_Kangju": 0,
    "LEVANTINE_Eng_Rom_Near_Eastern_o": 0,
    "LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE": 0,
    "LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_Roman": 0,
    "LONGOBARD_Hungary_Medieval_Szolad": 0,
    "MONGOLIAN_KAZ_Nomad_HP": 0,
    "NORTH_AMERICAN_USA_NM_Chaco": 0,
    "NORTH_URALIC_Levanluhta_IA": 0,
    "OTTOMAN_Anatolia_Ottoman": 0,
    "PACIFIC_VUT_1300BP_all": 0,
    "PRE-VIKING_SWE_IA": 0,
    "SLAVIC_Avar_Hungary_Szolad": 0,
    "SLAVIC_CZE_Early_Slav": 0,
    "SLAVIC_Sunghir_Medieval": 0,
    "SOUTHEAST-AFRICAN_KEN_Pastoral_N": 0,
    "SOUTHEAST-ASIAN_Thailand_IA": 0,
    "SOUTH_AFRICAN_ZAF_2000BP": 0,
    "TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE": 0,
    "TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE": 0,
    "TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
    "VIKING-EAST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
    "VIKING-FINNIC_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
    "VIKING-PRUSSIAN_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
    "VISIGOTH_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0,


    "sample": "Test1:Tim_G_father",
    "fit": 0.6722,
    "CELTIC_England_Roman": 37,
    "LONGOBARD__ITA_Collegno_MA": 27.2,
    "VIKING_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 13.6,
    "GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval": 4,
    "LONGOBARD_Hungary_Medieval_Szolad": 3.8,
    "GERMANIC_England_Anglo-Saxon": 2.8,
    "VIKING-WEST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 2.8,
    "CELTIBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES": 2.6,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_North_IA": 1.6,
    "VIKING-WEST_FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o": 1.4,
    "VIKING-EAST_Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 1
    ,
    "IBERIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE": 0.6,
    "LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_Roman": 0.4,
    "LUSITANIAN_Iberia_East_IA": 0.4,
    "CANARIAN_Canary_Islands_Guanche": 0.2,
    "CELTIC_England_IA": 0.2,
    "EGYPT_Egypt_Hellenistic": 0.2,
    "LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE": 0.2,
    "ALANIC_RUS_Alan_MA": 0,
    "ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA": 0,
    "ANDAMAN_Great_Andamanese_100BP": 0,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_RomP": 0,
    "AQUITANIAN_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0,
    "AQUITANIAN_Levant_LBN_MA_Euro": 0,
    "ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA": 0,
    "BALTIC-INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
    "BALTIC_Baltic_EST_MA": 0,
    "BALTIC_Baltic_LTU_LateA": 0,
    "CELTIC_Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1": 0,
    "DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o": 0,
    "GERMANIC_Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_DEU_MA_o": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_Hungary_Medieval_Szolad": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno": 0,
    "GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1": 0,
    "HIMALAYAN_NPL_Samdzong_1500BP": 0,
    "HUNNIC_Hun_Tian_Shan": 0,
    "IBERIAN_Germany_Roman": 0,
    "IBERIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Hungary_Medieval_Szolad": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Scythian_Moldova": 0,
    "ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN__Germany_Medieval_ACD": 0,
    "INGRIA_RUS_Ingria_IA": 0,
    "JAPANESE_Jomon": 0,
    "KANGJU_KAZ_Kangju": 0,
    "LEVANTINE_Eng_Rom_Near_Eastern_o": 0,
    "MONGOLIAN_KAZ_Nomad_HP": 0,
    "NORTH_AMERICAN_USA_NM_Chaco": 0,
    "NORTH_URALIC_Levanluhta_IA": 0,
    "OTTOMAN_Anatolia_Ottoman": 0,
    "PACIFIC_VUT_1300BP_all": 0,
    "PRE-VIKING_SWE_IA": 0,
    "SLAVIC_Avar_Hungary_Szolad": 0,
    "SLAVIC_CZE_Early_Slav": 0,
    "SLAVIC_Sunghir_Medieval": 0,
    "SOUTH-AMERICAN_PER_Laramate_900BP": 0,
    "SOUTHEAST-AFRICAN_KEN_Pastoral_N": 0,
    "SOUTHEAST-ASIAN_Thailand_IA": 0,
    "SOUTH_AFRICAN_ZAF_2000BP": 0,
    "TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE": 0,
    "TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE": 0,
    "TARTESSIAN_Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE": 0,
    "VIKING-FINNIC_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
    "VIKING-PRUSSIAN_SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 0,
    "VISIGOTH_Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL": 0,
    This is what I got using that model. Your fit is closer than mine.

    "sample": "Test1:Jessie_scaled",
    "fit": 1.3622,
    "England_Saxon_I0159": 37.5,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_grt035": 19.17,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL93": 14.17,
    "England_Saxon_I0157": 9.17,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL92": 7.5,
    "England_Saxon_I0773": 4.17,
    "England_Saxon_I0777": 1.67,
    "England_Saxon_NO3423": 1.67,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL151": 1.67,
    "DEU_MA_ACD_STR_310": 0.83,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL53": 0.83,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL57": 0.83,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_kls001": 0.83,

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  7. #14
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    Accepting that My true ancestry may not be fit for purpose:

    Ancestry DNA upload

    6. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (5.726) - ORE-A1
    8. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (1000 AD) (6.043) - VDP-A6
    10. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (6.421) - 97029
    11. Late Medieval Gotlander (1600 AD) (6.611) - Unknown
    19. Icelander Late Medieval (1650 AD) (7.344) - KOV-A2
    21. Saxon Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) (7.561) - GRS-A1
    22. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (7.87) - stg021
    23. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (7.885) - GTE-A
    26. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (8.047) - Sigtuna stg021
    29. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (8.231) - SSG-A4
    31. Viking Norse Iceland (935 AD) (8.302) - KNS-A1
    36. Gaelic Child Viking Iceland (935 AD) (8.493) - YGS-B2
    40. Viking Celtic Mix Sweden (1100 AD) (8.699) - Sigtuna grt035
    55. Viking Norse Iceland (935 AD) (10.14) - DKS-A1
    56. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (10.15) - FSS-A1
    58. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) (10.26) - SVK-A1
    60. Viking Norse Iceland (935 AD) (10.29) - SSJ-A2
    Last edited by firemonkey; 07-06-2019 at 11:01 AM.
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    Where my father and I rank as custom users .

    Scaled . Norwegian -Me 7th ,Father not in top 25
    Swedish - Me 9th, Father 15th
    Icelandic- Me 3rd, Father 14th

    Unscaled - Norwegian- Me 16th, Father not in top 23
    Swedish- Me 17th, Father 20th
    Icelandic - Me 5th, Father 10th
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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvan View Post
    When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.
    I'm struggling to follow your reasoning. 30/127 would suggest there are 76.4% of B&I samples lower than me . How then do I have less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry?
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  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvan View Post
    firemonkey has British and Irish ancestry, so he should have viking ancestors. It should be possible to measure this relative to other British and Irish people, and answer a different question, "is his viking ancestry higher or lower than the population average?"

    The formal papers showed that the B&I people are equally related to Swedish, but deferentially related to Norwegians, and they explained this by varying levels of Viking admixture in the populations. I think we can estimate this in G25. When I run all B&I samples including firemonkey to see how they are related to Norway and Sweden, firemonkey came 30 out of 127 B&I samples tested, roughly equally related to Norwegians and Swedish. So it look like he has less than average Norwegian Viking ancestry.

    Checking the euclidean distance scores in PAST3 I can his Swedish ancestry is higher than average for Britain. He scores like a very northern British person.

    We may be missing Danes. Are Danes closer to Norwegians or Swedish?
    I believe the study done on Danish DNA indicated that Danes are more similar to Swedes than Norwegians.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1562414384325
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Eastern European and Eastern German (Galicia, Poland) 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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  12. #18
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    Webrunner scaled


    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey",
    "fit": 0.7859,
    "Irish": 28,
    "Scottish": 26.4,
    "English": 24.2,
    "Orcadian": 13.6,
    "Icelandic": 3.2,
    "Norwegian": 2.8,

    "Swedish": 1.8,


    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father",
    "fit": 1.3243,
    "English": 55.2,
    "Scottish": 30.6,
    "Irish": 8,
    "Swedish": 3.6,
    "Icelandic": 2.6,

    "Norwegian": 0,
    "Orcadian": 0,



    Unscaled

    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey",
    "fit": 0.4772,
    "Irish": 41.4,
    "Orcadian": 23.6,
    "English": 17.4,
    "Scottish": 14.4,
    "Icelandic": 2,
    "Swedish": 1,
    "Norwegian": 0.2,

    "sample": "Custom:AGUser_firemonkey_father",
    "fit": 0.7041,
    "Orcadian": 32.6,
    "Scottish": 29.6,
    "English": 24.4,
    "Icelandic": 4.6,
    "Irish": 4.6,
    "Swedish": 4.2,
    "Norwegian": 0,
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  14. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    This is what I got using that model. Your fit is closer than mine.

    "sample": "Test1:Jessie_scaled",
    "fit": 1.3622,
    "England_Saxon_I0159": 37.5,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_grt035": 19.17,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL93": 14.17,
    "England_Saxon_I0157": 9.17,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL92": 7.5,
    "England_Saxon_I0773": 4.17,
    "England_Saxon_I0777": 1.67,
    "England_Saxon_NO3423": 1.67,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL151": 1.67,
    "DEU_MA_ACD_STR_310": 0.83,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL53": 0.83,
    "ITA_Collegno_MA_CL57": 0.83,
    "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna_vik_kls001": 0.83,
    Hello Jesse,

    I know that you know this but for the benefit of others, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that Sigtuna_vik_grt035 is a very British & Irish like sample. As can be seen by his Fit Check.

    01 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.834
    02 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.843
    03 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.981
    04 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 2.011
    05 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish_Averaged Averaged 2.057
    06 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.077
    07 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Irish Irish51 Modern; 2.111
    08 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 English_Cornwall HG00243 Modern; 2.153
    09 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 Welsh WAL001 Modern; 2.161
    10 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035 English_Averaged Averaged 2.162


    And, if I remember correctly, he plots among the British & Irish, not with the Swedes or Scandinavians. So I’m not sure how useful he is as a comparison, in a situation like this.
    Last edited by JMcB; 07-06-2019 at 02:54 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 830 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 975 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1550 AD).

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

     Nino90 (07-06-2019)

  16. #20
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,132
    Sex
    Location
    Calne,England
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    Great Britain
    Y-DNA
    E-Y45878
    mtDNA
    H67

    United Kingdom Scotland England Ireland
    Another very British one. Scaled.

    SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002

    Input Group Name Details Fit
    1 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 English HG02215 Modern; 3.391
    2 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 English HG01789 Modern; 3.44
    3 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 Scottish Scottish21 Modern; 3.481
    4 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_nuf002 Orcadian HGDP00799 Modern; 3.497
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     JMcB (07-06-2019)

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