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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Portugal

    A Thread das Calculadoras G25

    Quero lançar-vos um desafio com esta thread para agitar um pouco mais a nossa secção e torná-la ainda mais apelativa para todos Que tal tentarmos criar entre nós, Portugueses e Lusodescendentes, calculadoras para correr as nossas coordenadas G25 no nMonte? Penso que seria interessante tentarmos obter o melhor fit possível e explorar vários modelos com as centenas de samples disponíveis.

    No Gedmatch uma das calculadoras que normalmente parece ser do agrado dos membros Portugueses é o K13 do Eurogenes. Para começar propunha que críassemos uma calculadora com 13 componentes inspirada na mesma que servirá de piloto para esta thread.

    As componentes:

    1. North Atlantic
    2. Baltic
    3. West Med
    4. West Asian
    5. East Med
    6. Red_Sea
    7. South Asian
    8. East Asian
    9. Siberian
    10. Amerindian
    11. Oceanian
    12. Northeast African
    13. Sub Saharan


    O objectivo agora será debater entre nós quais samples devemos seleccionar para cada componente. Lembrem-se que o objectivo é tentar selecionar samples que possam dar o melhor fit possível a coordenadas G25 Portuguesas (por exemplo, seleccionar samples de Bascos Espanhóis em detrimento de Bascos Franceses). Pode ser apenas uma sample por cada componente, mais que uma sample por cada componente ou a média de uma população. Por exemplo, para a componente North Atlantic podiamos escolher uma sample de um Basco ou seleccionar três samples de Bascos ou ainda usar apenas a média do País Basco.

    Se gostarem da ideia da thread, sugiro que primeiramente acordemos entre nós se vamos usar samples modernas ou ancestrais, escaladas ou não escaladas para a criação desta primeira calculadora. Fico à espera das vossas sugestões
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  3. #2
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    Estou a pensar em usar populações modernas, médias mais concretamente.

    Para a primeira componente, North Atlantic, estou a pensar englobar a média dos Bascos com a média das Órcades ou da Irlanda.

    Baltic - média da Lituânia com a do Leste da Finlândia.

    West Med - média da Sardenha.

    West Asian - média da Abecásia e Geórgia.

    East Med - média dos Libaneses Drusos (mas não tenho a certeza se será a mais indicada).

    South Asian - não sei qual usar ainda.

    East Asian - Vietnamitas?

    Siberian - não faço ideia, nunca percebi muito bem a dirença entre East Asian e Siberian.

    Amerindian - penso que no caso dos Portugueses seria interessante utilizar a média de uma população ameríndia da América do Sul em detrimento da América do Norte.

    Oceanian - indígenas da Papua-Nova Guiné.

    Northeast African - média Etíope.

    Sub Saharan - outra componente que seria interessante usar a média de algumas colónias do ultramar (Guiné-Bissau, Angola e Moçambique) mas não sei é possível ou se as mesmas estão disponíveis.
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Onde podemos arranjar esses dados?

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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Portugal
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Vicente View Post
    Onde podemos arranjar esses dados?
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/0...est-drive.html

    Aqui podes descarregar o datasheet Global 25 escalado ou não escalado de todas as samples individuais do David bem como o datasheet da média das populações modernas.
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Na minha opinião faria sentido isolar os Bascos, que tal como os Sardenhos são populações isoladas e deveriam ter so seu próprio componente. Os componentes até se poderiam chamar Basque e Sardinian (em vez de West Med). O North Atlantic poderiam ser britânicos ou holandeses. Além disso faria sentido uma referência norte africana.

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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Portugal
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Vicente View Post
    Na minha opinião faria sentido isolar os Bascos, que tal como os Sardenhos são populações isoladas e deveriam ter so seu próprio componente. Os componentes até se poderiam chamar Basque e Sardinian (em vez de West Med). O North Atlantic poderiam ser britânicos ou holandeses. Além disso faria sentido uma referência norte africana.
    Isso já seria então mais parecido com um Eurogenes K15. A componente North Sea que são os tais Escoceses e Holandeses estaria separada e passaríamos a ter uma componente de Atlantid com apenas samples do País Basco.

    Poderiamos substituir o Northeast African das samples Etíopes e meter então uma componente North African baseada em médias de Marroquinos ou Tunisínos, tenho de ver quais deles são os Berberes mais nativos e com menor mistura de Árabes e Levantinos.
    Last edited by Lusitano; 07-06-2019 at 07:13 PM.
    R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866

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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitano View Post
    Isso já seria então mais parecido com um Eurogenes K15. A componente North Sea que são os tais Escoceses e Holandeses estaria separada e passaríamos a ter uma componente de Atlantid com apenas samples do País Basco.

    Poderiamos substituir o Northeast African das samples Etíopes e meter então uma componente North African baseada em médias de Marroquinos ou Tunisínos, tenho de ver quais deles são os Berberes mais nativos e com menor mistura de Árabes e Levantinos.
    Podiamos sempre substituir esses componentes a mais por componentes que nenhum de nos vai ter, como Amerindian ou East Asian e ficava K13 na mesma.

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    Code:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC12,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC22,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Atlantic:Basque_Spain,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.0090081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
    Atlantic:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
    North_Sea:Orcadian,0.1306689,0.1342528,0.0629793,0.04845,0.0387149,0.0175423,0.001786,0.0039229,0.0050312,0.001786,-0.0068367,0.0048108,-0.0119078,-0.0108308,0.0223531,0.0030364,-0.0123864,0.0034712,0.0026774,0.0003001,0.0049539,0.0022504,-0.0021567,0.0100374,-0.0005988
    North_Sea:Norwegian,0.1338234,0.1279567,0.0679357,0.0534334,0.0386443,0.0210366,0.0041964,0.0062964,0.0057267,0.0003906,-0.0037349,0.0036823,-0.007518,-0.011698,0.0210754,0.0093949,-0.0054203,0.0026061,0.0006823,0.0007503,0.005633,0.0055643,0.0042784,0.0177304,0.0010947
    Baltic:Finnish_East,0.1265711,0.0754538,0.0952229,0.0812991,0.0279127,0.0239846,0.0090243,0.0163608,0.0052153,-0.0301419,0.0047905,-0.008887,0.0185082,0.005725,0.0008008,-0.0028109,-0.0050329,-0.0003168,-0.0020741,0.0054275,0.0088094,0.0012738,0.0022678,0.0049162,0.0044066
    Baltic:Lithuanian,0.1371568,0.127703,0.0846638,0.0816382,0.0467778,0.0300505,0.009518,0.0169608,0.0020453,-0.028019,-0.0071045,-0.0112402,0.0237112,0.0334422,-0.0093308,-0.0002983,-0.0041395,-0.001457,0.0004712,0.0034078,-0.0032132,-0.0038332,0.0104758,-0.0098205,-8.97e-05
    West_Med:Sardinian,0.1206524,0.1679686,0.0276806,-0.0515508,0.0603188,-0.0224786,-0.003478,0.004292,0.0427048,0.0798558,-0.0020784,0.0158856,-0.0270266,-0.0131842,-0.0132192,-0.004614,0.0120476,-0.0013176,0.0017596,-0.012931,-0.0050908,-0.0042044,-0.0097122,-0.021087,0.0008382
    West_Asian:Abkhazian,0.1089858,0.1152626,-0.0468571,-0.0399712,-0.039892,-0.0064146,0.01131,-0.0063169,-0.0616896,-0.0225286,-0.0023951,0.0092729,-0.0233769,0.0038362,0.0027654,-0.0233524,0.0111314,-0.005226,-0.011187,0.0195874,0.0137569,0.0027822,0.0033278,-0.0084799,-0.0015267
    East_Med:Druze,0.0841153,0.1404478,-0.0496667,-0.070091,-0.0156642,-0.0251838,-0.0024205,-0.0053304,-0.0023112,0.0075992,0.0051477,-0.0030274,0.009083,0.0020232,-0.0068675,0.0061655,-0.0020861,0.0008361,0.0024761,-0.000913,-0.0013225,0.0019414,0.0002465,0.0025182,-0.0005866
    East_Med:Cypriot,0.0997375,0.146744,-0.0378534,-0.0702525,-0.0070011,-0.0242986,0.001645,-0.0047594,0.0029656,0.0138728,0.0044454,-0.0001499,0.0025459,0.0018234,-0.0086014,0.0008947,0.0023631,0.0009978,0.0022469,-0.0012506,-0.0024489,0.0011438,-0.0027115,0.0017774,-0.0020656
    South_Asian:Chamar,0.0379408,-0.0964753,-0.1691387,0.1266708,-0.0716543,0.06619,-0.0032508,0.0122685,0.0593118,0.0382392,-0.0051425,-0.0011238,0.0014867,0.0044727,-0.0095005,-0.0126843,0.0076275,-0.0013302,-0.0039173,0.0065032,0.0021628,0.0059148,0.00076,0.0028717,-0.0064067
    East_Asian:Vietnamese,0.017785,-0.4347735,-0.0384192,-0.057817,0.1141366,0.056371,-0.0013806,-0.0092881,-0.0165409,-0.0097496,0.0022124,-0.0012176,0.0021555,-0.0063478,-0.0015436,-0.0001989,0.000212,0.0008235,-0.0041323,-0.0082854,0.0089529,0.0064918,0.0120935,9.02e-05,0.003353
    Siberian:Evens,0.0421147,-0.4319387,0.1399117,-0.015827,-0.138795,-0.0819007,0.0287493,0.036691,0.0328603,0.0261203,0.0556993,0.007843,-0.0146187,0.0089913,-0.0159697,-0.011049,0.0022597,0.0133867,0.0288267,0.0127147,0.050411,-0.045298,0.0072717,0.0127327,0.0190403
    Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0588087,-0.320061,0.1183532,0.1083675,-0.1136622,-0.0136192,-0.3230612,-0.382484,-0.0153735,-0.017343,0.0009473,-0.0026975,-0.0016352,0.0273182,-0.0045692,0.0044197,0.0110175,0.002597,0.0001047,-0.0003543,-0.0055318,0.010902,-0.005546,-0.0025303,-0.0067858
    Oceanian:Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314,0.0016048
    Sub_Saharan:Ethiopian,-0.5256728,0.0489145,-0.0071653,-0.0124893,-0.0007693,-0.0077625,0.0057967,-0.0019615,0.0953762,-0.1010805,-0.0201362,0.017984,-0.0375615,-0.0020873,0.0160377,-0.020463,0.0244687,0.0021115,0.0144133,-0.0176543,-0.0008735,0.0032767,-0.0057925,-0.0032133,0.004271
    Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
    Red_Sea:Bedouin,0.041925,0.1439232,-0.0598156,-0.1169808,-0.0093179,-0.0480622,-0.0141008,-0.0087432,0.05154,-0.0052038,0.0158689,-0.0305729,0.0629496,0.004855,0.0043959,0.0288529,-0.0199706,0.00366,-0.0040153,0.029,0.0109668,0.0152299,-0.0039166,0.0071025,-0.0083092
    Red_Sea:Yemenite_Jew,0.051383,0.1447854,-0.0632486,-0.114066,-0.0118263,-0.0466941,-0.0134963,-0.0088677,0.0489689,-0.006274,0.0113209,-0.0266121,0.0539851,0.0032439,0.0035287,0.0171607,-0.0245497,0.003475,0.0064106,0.0249583,0.012888,0.0159867,-0.0070954,0.0046479,-0.0068941
    North_African:Moroccan_North,-0.0299735,0.1373221,-0.0030378,-0.0673993,0.0280564,-0.0319174,-0.0244542,0.0050512,0.0609822,0.0327317,0.0059091,-0.0065526,0.0185908,-0.0147102,0.0151403,-0.0105629,0.0012604,-0.0179828,-0.040747,0.0092961,-0.0121937,-0.0346297,0.0214382,-0.0055763,0.0043974
    North_African:Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594

    Até agora está assim com 14 componentes baseadas em samples modernas. O que acham que pode ser melhorado ou que samples devem ser adicionadas\substituídas? Testem para ver se vos dá um fit decente.


    Coordenadas escaladas com penalização 0:

    [1] "distance%=1.7711"

    Lusitano

    Atlantic,45
    North_Sea,12
    West_Med,11.4
    North_African,11
    East_Med,8.4
    Baltic,7.4
    West_Asian,4.4
    Oceanian,0.2
    Siberian,0.2
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  11. #9
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    [1] "distance%=1.5399"

    Gil_Vicente

    Atlantic,40.8
    North_Sea,29.2
    East_Med,13.6
    West_Med,9.4
    North_African,4.2
    Sub_Saharan,2
    Oceanian,0.6
    West_Asian,0.2

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  13. #10
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Portugal
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Vicente View Post
    [1] "distance%=1.5399"

    Gil_Vicente

    Atlantic,40.8
    North_Sea,29.2
    East_Med,13.6
    West_Med,9.4
    North_African,4.2
    Sub_Saharan,2
    Oceanian,0.6
    West_Asian,0.2
    Um fit de 1.5 não é mau de todo mas acho que a sample das Órcades poderá estar a "roubar" um pouco do Atlantic por ela própria ter algumas componentes idênticas à dos Bascos.

    Se eu remover a sample dos Escoceses das Órcades da componente North Sea e adicioná-la à componente Atlantic e adicionar uma sample de Suecos juntamente com Noruegueses no North Sea este seria o teu resultado:

    [1] "distance%=1.5399"

    Gil_Vicente

    Atlantic,70
    East_Med,13.6
    West_Med,9.4
    North_African,4.2
    Sub_Saharan,2
    Oceanian,0.6
    West_Asian,0.2


    E o meu:

    [1] "distance%=1.7712"

    Viriato

    Atlantic,56.8
    West_Med,11.8
    North_African,11
    East_Med,8.2
    Baltic,7.4
    West_Asian,4.4
    Oceanian,0.2
    Siberian,0.2

    O North Sea desaparece, ou seja, estamos a ir buscar o North Sea todo à sample das Órcades e nada das Escandinavas na run anterior.
    Last edited by Lusitano; 07-06-2019 at 08:26 PM.
    R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866

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