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Thread: Central italian mountain communities' genetic origins

  1. #101
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    Correct me if I'm wrong. This is just my interpretation. Etruscans were pelasgians. Pelasgians colonized entire central Italy. Etruscans were just the most structured and didn't collapse after the arrival of the osco-umbrians. Strong pelasgian component is present in most central italians (that's why J2 is so common even in isolated mountain communities).
    In the territory of Trevi nel Lazio there's cyclopean masonry. Another name for cyclopean masonry in Italy is "pelasgic walls". Is that just a coincidence?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    I do not know what you mean really mean,.............but, under Italian law ( and I have records of this since the 14th century to present ) , women cannot take the husband surname in marriage.
    so , your example could be

    Maria Valentini , moglie di Belgradi ........................maria is wife of a ...man surnamed Belgradi

    or

    Maria Valentini detto Belgradi ...........( detto = some say ) ...used when there where too many families with the same surname in the same town

    I have a detto in the past
    I have Robazza and my 3rd cousin has Momi ..........and we have the same surname


    My mother surname has a detto .......So`Fia ( means her daughter ) and in her town there where 7 families with the same surname
    In parish records an ancestor of mine was termed Domenico Valentini o Belgradi.
    Romilius has used his genealogical knowledge to explain why this happened.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    In parish records an ancestor of mine was termed Domenico Valentini o Belgradi.
    Romilius has used his genealogical knowledge to explain why this happened.
    how old are these records ?

    to me it means...........Domenico Valentini of Belgrade

    o might mean "of" Belgrade .................but da has been used for a very long time to mean of

    di is italian
    de is french and spanish
    do is portuguese

    above is personnel naming

    da italian for place
    de french and spanish for place
    Last edited by vettor; 07-12-2019 at 11:55 PM.

    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4o
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d1-P109
    Maternal side Grandfather .......R1b-S8172
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stolfi View Post
    Understood, but considering my surname, my haplogroup and the region of Italy where my ancestor's were I'm trying to figure out if my ancestor's were Lombard's.
    No, the logic isn't correct. If you are right and your surname of germanic origin is paired with an ethnic germanic origin, it's only a fact of luck and chance, not historical.

    The reality is that surname IS DIFFERENT from an ethnic origin: surnames were born for many reasons. Sometimes, in Central and Southern Italy the surname could be also a sign of ethnic origin, but only because surnames were fixed very late, so to change them was very easy. I speak, for example, for surnames like Tedeschi, Todisco, Francia, etc and only for southern and central Italy. But for ancestral origins before modern era, the link between origin of surname and origin of person isn't existant.

    As I said, the origin of a surname is from toponomy, personal names and phisical features (and also jobs). Personal names, when the first surnames were born, were widespread indipendently from their origins: many germanic nobles used latin names around the X and XI. So, paradoxically, you'll find peasants with germanic names, like Lanfranchus, Albertus, Gisulphus, etc... and nobles of documented germanic origins with names like Johannes, Petrus, Stephanus, etc...
    Last edited by Romilius; 07-13-2019 at 04:39 AM.

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  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Aurelius de Valentinis dictus Belgradus

    this means .....Aurelius son of Valentinis of the Belgradus family

    in modern italian the de changed to di
    and
    da introduced to indicate a town or area ..................like da Vinci is from the town of Vinci .............if it was di Vinci it would mean a surname of Vinci
    No: Aurelius de Valentinis dictus Belgradus doesn't mean what you wrote, but it means Aurelius, nicknamed Belgradus, of the Valentini family.

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  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    how old are these records ?

    to me it means...........Domenico Valentini of Belgrade

    o might mean "of" Belgrade .................but da has been used for a very long time to mean of

    di is italian
    de is french and spanish
    do is portuguese

    above is personnel naming

    da italian for place
    de french and spanish for place
    Again, no: Valentini o Belgradi is the italian translation of the previous latin de Valentinis sive de Belgradis. That means that the two surnames were at a stage when they were interchangeable, so the priest put both, because that person was known both as Valentini and Belgradi in the community.
    Last edited by Romilius; 07-13-2019 at 04:45 AM.

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