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Thread: Poi's G25 online Web Runner and Map utilities.

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    Poi's G25 online Web Runner and Map utilities.

    How can a sample be located on a map in one country, but have his nearest genetic neighbors in another country? I see that apparent discrepancy between Poi's G25 online web Runner map and the G25 web Runner nMonte list of most similar samples. The nMonte features a map function (BTW, a very nice tool) which shows the aggregate nMonte location for an individual as a nice white dot on the maps. But, when looking at the web Runner nMonte list of samples it's quite different. For example, German 48 I find to be in SW Germany (I know, it should be natural!). But, when it comes to the list of the individual samples listed as his nearest distance neighbors on the G25 nMonte runner, German 48 has mostly French examples and he is extremely close to the French average as well. Nonetheless, he shows up on the map in Germany when I was expecting him to show up in the middle of France somewhere. So, I'm trying to resolve the discrepancy between his map location as opposed to where I thought he would be from when taking into account his genetic neighbors. I suspect I've misinterpreted something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dchicn View Post
    How can a sample be located on a map in one country, but have his nearest genetic neighbors in another country? I see that apparent discrepancy between Poi's G25 online web Runner map and the G25 web Runner nMonte list of most similar samples. The nMonte features a map function (BTW, a very nice tool) which shows the aggregate nMonte location for an individual as a nice white dot on the maps. But, when looking at the web Runner nMonte list of samples it's quite different. For example, German 48 I find to be in SW Germany (I know, it should be natural!). But, when it comes to the list of the individual samples listed as his nearest distance neighbors on the G25 nMonte runner, German 48 has mostly French examples and he is extremely close to the French average as well. Nonetheless, he shows up on the map in Germany when I was expecting him to show up in the middle of France somewhere. So, I'm trying to resolve the discrepancy between his map location as opposed to where I thought he would be from when taking into account his genetic neighbors. I suspect I've misinterpreted something.
    It looks like German48 is French/Belgian shifted in G25. Perhaps sampling issue or due to natural variation?


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    Thanks, Poi. To an extent the Fit Check speaks for itself. I ran the map with different parameters and came up with German 48 landing on the border of Germany/France.

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    Southwest Germans are more like French (from my experience modeling my parents and me who have lots of SW German and my dad entirely SW German ancestors) than they are like Northern and Eastern Germans. It is not too uncommon for all of us to plot with the Eastern French. I guess the genetics don't know about the border of the country or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    Southwest Germans are more like French (from my experience modeling my parents and me who have lots of SW German and my dad entirely SW German ancestors) than they are like Northern and Eastern Germans. It is not too uncommon for all of us to plot with the Eastern French. I guess the genetics don't know about the border of the country or something like that.
    Thanks, Randwulf. Agreed, I've observed many times that SW Germans resemble the French more closely, and that FrenchEast cross borders, for instance. I think where I'm going with my inquiry is to understand how the nomenclature is determined on nMonte for "French", "FrenchEast," etc. since it is clear that many individual samples do cross borders. Take Irish29, for instance: I map him over in the Welsh Borders! Further, German 48 is an interesting case as this person plots on the border of France and Germany near Alsace, while reoccurring at very close genetic distance to several individuals much further down into France, i.e., he is almost an exemplar of the French Average. Another thing is, his closest average group is French but nMonte still has him as German by quite a good margin. Germans right next to him don't share the amount of French that he has, either. I'm beginning to see repeated patterns of cross reference amongst samples without them being geographically very proximate with each other. It suggests to me that there is a significant enough shared genetic characteristic, but not the to the extent that they need to plot in close proximity. Hope that makes sense.

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    Besides what Randwulf said there's also personal or sub-regional variation that is for the most part unknown, yet it can thrown you a curve ball. I can model myself in nMonte as ~50% Spanish Pais Vasco and ~50% Portuguese, but that doesn't change the fact that all my known ancestors are actually Portuguese. Genetics and geography don't always go hand in hand
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>E-Y134097>E-Y168273 (probably Scythian-Sarmatian). Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Besides what Randwulf said there's also personal or sub-regional variation that is for the most part unknown, yet it can thrown you a curve ball. I can model myself in nMonte as ~50% Spanish Pais Vasco and ~50% Portuguese, but that doesn't change the fact that all my known ancestors are actually Portuguese. Genetics and geography don't always go hand in hand
    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    Southwest Germans are more like French (from my experience modeling my parents and me who have lots of SW German and my dad entirely SW German ancestors) than they are like Northern and Eastern Germans. It is not too uncommon for all of us to plot with the Eastern French. I guess the genetics don't know about the border of the country or something like that.
    LOL! I was just writing about our Conqueror/dchicn/Randwulf/etc franco-belgo-german cluster, here:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post581160

    ^^and then I clicked on this thread
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    LOL! I was just writing about our Conqueror/dchicn/Randwulf/etc franco-belgo-german cluster, here:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post581160

    ^^and then I clicked on this thread
    I commented on the above referenced thread - thanks, Dewsloth, for the great input!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Besides what Randwulf said there's also personal or sub-regional variation that is for the most part unknown, yet it can thrown you a curve ball. I can model myself in nMonte as ~50% Spanish Pais Vasco and ~50% Portuguese, but that doesn't change the fact that all my known ancestors are actually Portuguese. Genetics and geography don't always go hand in hand
    You spoke a truism. I find German48 a bit mystifiying, though, because he doesn't even have a German Average hit - under 3.1 at least - on the Check Fit. Bizarre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dchicn View Post
    You spoke a truism. I find German48 a bit mystifiying, though, because he doesn't even have a German Average hit - under 3.1 at least - on the Check Fit. Bizarre.
    Dad is his 4th closest fit. Maybe German48 also has some converted Ashkenazi [Levant], Flemish or French ancestry from centuries ago that similarly skews their results?
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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