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Thread: How can I determine what populations I am mixed with?

  1. #1
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    Question How can I determine what populations I am mixed with?

    Hello all,

    I have a question in regards to my ancestry that I hope some of you might help me to solve.

    So, long story short - I am an Ottoman Romani from the Balkans. My tribe is called Yerli/Arli/Erlides which in Turkish translates to "native or local" as our ancestors became sedentary in the regions of the Balkans and Western Anatolia since their early arrival and are known as Turkish Roma. Today most of us are pretty assimilated and unrecognizble from the locals. Prior to taking a DNA test I always assumed I I would score some sort of Western Asian or Balkan but I was quite suprised by the South Asian as I always assume the Indian origin was a myth.

    Well now I clearly know that I have Balkan Middle Eastern and Indian admixture, but various companies display different results and my question is what part of me is South Asian and etc. Also, I would like to know what ethnicities I am mixed with. Do I really have Turkish admix as my tribe suggests or perhaps I have typical Balkan Roma admix?

    I would be happy to hear what you think.

    23andme.PNGAncestry.PNGFTDNA.PNGMYHRG.PNG

    Eurogenes k13

    # Population Percent
    1 South_Asian 29.44
    2 East_Med 18.89
    3 West_Asian 17.73
    4 West_Med 15.29
    5 Baltic 8.87
    6 Red_Sea 4.16
    7 North_Atlantic 3.84
    8 Oceanian 0.86
    9 East_Asian 0.59
    10 Siberian 0.32

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Afghan_Tadjik 26.01
    2 Pathan 26.64
    3 Afghan_Pashtun 26.76
    4 Turkmen 27.04
    5 Tadjik 27.23
    6 Turkish 27.55
    7 Azeri 27.58
    8 Iranian 28.46
    9 Punjabi_Jat 28.69
    10 Burusho 29.08
    11 East_Sicilian 30.13
    12 Central_Greek 30.22
    13 Kurdish 30.29
    14 Greek_Thessaly 30.36
    15 Sindhi 30.64
    16 Syrian 30.9
    17 South_Italian 30.98
    18 Ashkenazi 31.17
    19 Kalash 31.2
    20 Lebanese_Muslim 31.7

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 59.2% Central_Greek + 40.8% Dusadh @ 6.44
    2 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Kshatriya @ 6.54
    Last edited by chris000009; 07-09-2019 at 11:21 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Could you post your harappaworld results? It should be a good comparison point to unmixed South Asians.

    Furthermore, I would advise you to get your g25 coordinates from Davidski so we can model you based on particular populations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    Could you post your harappaworld results? It should be a good comparison point to unmixed South Asians.

    Furthermore, I would advise you to get your g25 coordinates from Davidski so we can model you based on particular populations.
    Thanks for the reply. That’s my harappaworld results:


    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 25.51
    2 S-Indian 23.4
    3 Baloch 16.5
    4 Mediterranean 12.77
    5 NE-Euro 10.19
    6 SW-Asian 9.33
    7 SE-Asian 1.2
    8 American 0.52
    9 Papuan 0.43
    10 NE-Asian 0.07
    11 E-African 0.07


    1 romanian-b (behar) 5.49
    2 bene-israel-jew (behar) 18.14
    3 pashtun (harappa) 21.73
    4 turkmen (yunusbayev) 22.85
    5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 25.01
    6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 25.64
    7 turkish (harappa) 25.77
    8 iranian (behar) 25.77
    9 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.83
    10 kashmiri (harappa) 25.91
    11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 25.95
    12 iranian (harappa) 25.95
    13 kurd (harappa) 26.09
    14 up-muslim (harappa) 26.23
    15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 26.71
    16 azeri (harappa) 27.02
    17 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 27.07
    18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 27.09
    19 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 27.51
    20 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 27.54

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 78.9% romanian-b (behar) + 21.1% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.67
    2 60.7% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 39.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.28
    3 57.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 3.44
    4 87.5% romanian-b (behar) + 12.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.59
    5 64.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 35.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.6
    6 51.5% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.61

    And also my G25 Coordinates:

    CR_scaled,0.091058,0.057885,-0.078818,0.01938,-0.022773,0.015897,-0.00329,0.003923,0.020248,0.02041,-0.000487,-0.001349,0.000892,0.012937,-0.013843,-0.001856,0.011735,0.001774,0.003142,0.007379,-0.002121,-0.003462,-0.001972,-0.003374,-0.000838
    Last edited by chris000009; 07-09-2019 at 11:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris000009 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. That’s my harappaworld results:


    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 25.51
    2 S-Indian 23.4
    3 Baloch 16.5
    4 Mediterranean 12.77
    5 NE-Euro 10.19
    6 SW-Asian 9.33
    7 SE-Asian 1.2
    8 American 0.52
    9 Papuan 0.43
    10 NE-Asian 0.07
    11 E-African 0.07


    1 romanian-b (behar) 5.49
    2 bene-israel-jew (behar) 18.14
    3 pashtun (harappa) 21.73
    4 turkmen (yunusbayev) 22.85
    5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 25.01
    6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 25.64
    7 turkish (harappa) 25.77
    8 iranian (behar) 25.77
    9 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.83
    10 kashmiri (harappa) 25.91
    11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 25.95
    12 iranian (harappa) 25.95
    13 kurd (harappa) 26.09
    14 up-muslim (harappa) 26.23
    15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 26.71
    16 azeri (harappa) 27.02
    17 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 27.07
    18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 27.09
    19 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 27.51
    20 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 27.54

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 78.9% romanian-b (behar) + 21.1% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.67
    2 60.7% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 39.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.28
    3 57.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 3.44
    4 87.5% romanian-b (behar) + 12.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.59
    5 64.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 35.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.6
    6 51.5% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.61

    And also my G25 Coordinates:

    CR_scaled,0.091058,0.057885,-0.078818,0.01938,-0.022773,0.015897,-0.00329,0.003923,0.020248,0.02041,-0.000487,-0.001349,0.000892,0.012937,-0.013843,-0.001856,0.011735,0.001774,0.003142,0.007379,-0.002121,-0.003462,-0.001972,-0.003374,-0.000838
    Here's a base run, but with Turkish_Istanbul included. You obviously have some sort of Turkish or Balkan mixture.

    "sample": "Test1:CR_scaled",
    "fit": 2.7192,
    "Anatolia_Barcin_N": 20.83,
    "Simulated_AASI": 19.17,
    "Turkish_Istanbul": 19.17,
    "IRN_Seh_Gabi_C": 17.5,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 12.5,
    "TJK_Sarazm_En": 10.83,


    Unfortunately, we do not have 'dom' samples from India, who are probably the progenitors of the Romani, but I am using Chamars from UP as a substitute. But, in reality, Chamars should be a lot different to doms, and are way more AASI shifted I'm guessing.


    "sample": "Test1:CR_scaled",
    "fit": 3.0853,
    "Turkish_Istanbul": 35,
    "Chamar": 28.33,
    "Greek": 20.83,
    "Iranian_Persian": 15.83


    All in all, it seems you are also very Indian shifted.
    Last edited by Kulin; 07-09-2019 at 11:46 PM.

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    Here's a base run, but with Turkish_Istanbul included. You obviously have some sort of Turkish or Balkan mixture.

    "sample": "Test1:CR_scaled",
    "fit": 2.7192,
    "Anatolia_Barcin_N": 20.83,
    "Simulated_AASI": 19.17,
    "Turkish_Istanbul": 19.17,
    "IRN_Seh_Gabi_C": 17.5,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 12.5,
    "TJK_Sarazm_En": 10.83,


    Unfortunately, we do not have 'dom' samples from India, who are probably the progenitors of the Romani, but I am using Chamars from UP as a substitute. But, in reality, Chamars should be a lot different to doms, and are way more AASI shifted I'm guessing.


    "sample": "Test1:CR_scaled",
    "fit": 3.0853,
    "Turkish_Istanbul": 35,
    "Chamar": 28.33,
    "Greek": 20.83,
    "Iranian_Persian": 15.83


    All in all, it seems you are also very Indian shifted.
    Thanks for the run. The AASI usually comes out 10-15% on the online nMonte runner. Here I scored the highest xD The thing I wonder is why every single company or test shows different amounts. How much South Asian do you think I am?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris000009 View Post
    Thanks for the run. The AASI usually comes out 10-15% on the online nMonte runner. Here I scored the highest xD The thing I wonder is why every single company or test shows different amounts. How much South Asian do you think I am?
    I would guess you are around 40% South Asian, though that would vary on what metric we're using since I have personally never seen 'dom' results. Balkan Romanis probably also mixed with locals in Iran, and of course Anatolia and the balkans later on during their migration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    I would guess you are around 40% South Asian, though that would vary on what metric we're using since I have personally never seen 'dom' results. Balkan Romanis probably also mixed with locals in Iran, and of course Anatolia and the balkans later on during their migration.
    Yeah, that's clear the Indian ancestors of Roma left the subcontinent more than 1000 years ago and then moderately mixed with locals. Their presence in the Byzantine dates to 800 AD. That's why I think the ancestral Indians were quite different genetically than the ones from recent times even if we take the Doms as an ancestral group.

    Lol having 30-40% of unmixed ancient Indian blood is fascinating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris000009 View Post
    Thanks for the run. The AASI usually comes out 10-15% on the online nMonte runner. Here I scored the highest xD The thing I wonder is why every single company or test shows different amounts. How much South Asian do you think I am?
    You have an unbelievably diverse ethnic background. It’s something to be proud of!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26284729292 View Post
    You have an unbelievably diverse ethnic background. It’s something to be proud of!
    Thanks for the statement. Indeed I am proud of all my heritage, the only thing I wish is to be able to determine the % or fraction of each part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris000009 View Post
    Thanks for the statement. Indeed I am proud of all my heritage, the only thing I wish is to be able to determine the % or fraction of each part.
    Yeah of course. I'm thinking you're around 40% south asian (assuming it's a population that's ~50% AASI). If it's a more tribal shifted population, it may only be 30% south asian.

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