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Thread: Apidima Cave Fossils Provide Earliest Evidence of Homo sapiens Eurasia

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    Apidima Cave Fossils Provide Earliest Evidence of Homo sapiens Eurasia

    Has anyone posted about this?

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1376-z

    Edit: title should say "in Eurasia." Got a little over excited.
    Last edited by euromutt; 07-10-2019 at 07:06 PM.
    My paper trail: 50% Italian, 34.4% French Canadian, 9.4% English, 6.3% Scottish.

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    Cool report. Amazing how long modern humans have been around. I also think “failed” referring to their lack of persistence in Eurasia at that date is a judgment call. We simply do not think they contributed to the current human gene pool directly.

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    Just to play devil's advocate / party-pooper, is it feasible that some 'modern features' were present at low frequency amongst the Modern-Neanderthal ancestor, and were just selected for or against in one or the other groups? Don't a lot of the later Erectus (possibly Deniosvan?) remains from Asia also show a suite of mixed Archaic/modern features?
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    Some studies have suggested that early ooa groups mixed into at least neanderthals. Imo if convergent evolution did occure we'd need more ancient dna from groups who didn't contribute to living humans to confirm it. Also, just spitballing ideas here but admixture could set off a phenotypic change as well due to breaking stable traits that hadn't been recently subject to selection

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate / party-pooper, is it feasible that some 'modern features' were present at low frequency amongst the Modern-Neanderthal ancestor, and were just selected for or against in one or the other groups? Don't a lot of the later Erectus (possibly Deniosvan?) remains from Asia also show a suite of mixed Archaic/modern features?
    It is more serious than you can imagine.
    Look what Lazaridis tweeted (maybe he knows some about their genetics...).

    https://twitter.com/iosif_lazaridis/...02945490345985

    "These results suggest that two late Middle Pleistocene human groups were present at this site—an early Homo sapiens population, followed by a Neanderthal population."


    The importance of this paper cannot be understated. Previously, it was thought that modern humans may have only made occasional forays Out-of-Africa in the >100,000 year time frame into the Levant, in sites such as Shkul/Qafzeh and as early as ~180,000 years ago in Misliya


    Apidima 1 is older than Levantine and East African (Omo 1 and Herto) modern humanss and younger only than Irhoud 1 in Morocco (~300,000 years ago). It is older than classical Neandertals but younger than samples on the Neandertal lineage in Sima de los Huesos (~400,000 years ago)

    Modern humans and Neandertals had >150,000 years of time and a wide area from at least Greece to the Levant where they could have interacted. The two groups must've met long before the final and decisive shift of power around 50,000 years ago in favor of the sapiens group.

    https://twitter.com/iosif_lazaridis/...62176763596800


    Also interesting that the Irhoud samples cluster with Neandertals (Fig. 3). These were first thought to be Neandertals and then recently re-assigned to be modern humans, the reverse of Apidima 1 which was thought to be a Neandertal but now turns out to be a modern human

    I increasingly think that the Africa/sapiens---W. Eurasia/Neandertal dichotomy is in need of a major comprehensive rethink from first principles.


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    Maybe Mediterranean area is cradle of humanity (North Africa, Greece and Levant).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gene.test View Post
    Maybe Mediterranean area is cradle of humanity (North Africa, Greece and Levant).
    O yeah. Homo antecessor as ancestor of a Neander-Denisova branch and a AMH branch. However, there is a super archaic trace in Neanderthalers and Denisovans that is absent in AMH which may be a sign of the former expanding from somewhere meeting some Erectus variant and that could point to a Out of Africa scenario.

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    Lazaridis as a Greek has some interest in such find which makes Greece older than Africa. So we can be sure soon those samples will be genetically tested

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    I've just read this. Interesting that they look solely PC1 and 2 when this wouldn't allow for the possibility of the individual being an outlier, which means all PCs have to be considered (see JollIffe). I'd like to see more on the French paper that's mentioned and which disagrees with their conclusions. I don't think we've heard the last word.
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    Apidima 1 may be considered a "dead end" lineage, but it makes me wonder whether these "premature" Homo sapiens colonists had any gene flow with the local Neanderthals (and any other "archaic" populations in the area). It might mean that the Neanderthal introgression found in modern OOA human genomes might have come packaged with Apidima 1-like Homo sapiens ancestry as well. In other words, the Neanderthals who mixed with the ancestors of modern OOA might have already been mixed with Homo sapiens themselves.

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