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Thread: Genetic Landscape of the West Eurasian Steppe before and after the Scythian Dominance

  1. #21
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    One of the two Chernyakhiv samples that I could put into the G25 clusters with Poles, but close to Germans, and another is a minimal outlier from Central/Eastern/Northern Europe, probably as a result of Balkan ancestry.

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L81MWn6wy...hernyakhiv.png

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Just a little update the E sample is confirmed E-M84

    The sample isn't the best quality so this might be the furthest it goes.
    Speaking of which, are you - or anyone else - able to check a haplogroup of a Scythian from Damgaard's "137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes"? More on point sample DA19.
    I'm asking because he's assigned to my haplogroup, but so far upstream its TMRCA is 10400 years (E-Y31991, which is E-M123 but negative for E-M34)
    Last edited by Ruderico; 07-12-2019 at 01:52 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36858>E-Y168273 (probably Scythian-Sarmatian). Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

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  5. #23
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    Rechecked that MJ-32 Cimmerian, who is said to be R1a2c-B111. As I said, I could not understand what does this B111 means.

    He is R1a-M417 with no downstream info.
    I think he is likely to represent some rare/extinct branch, because the DNA is of relatively high quality with many calls.

    Checking now MJ-31 Cimmerian.
    Last edited by artemv; 07-12-2019 at 11:51 AM. Reason: typo

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  7. #24
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    I'd observed here that the Cimmerians had an unusually high degree of East Eurasian admixture, prior to the publication of this paper. It looks like these aren't recycled samples (MJ12 is ~55% Altaian according to their qpAdm run, which is significantly higher than what I'd picked up earlier).

    As was the case several months ago, I am highly intrigued by this finding. I can't think of a historically or archaeologically attested movement that coincides with an east-to-west movement during that time period.

    It certainly does look like there was a hitherto unattested wave of ancestry from the east into the Pontic-Caspian steppe. That may have affected the linguistic character of Cimmerian (though the given names we currently have recorded clearly look and sound Indo-European, specifically Indo-Iranian). It may suggest that a back-migration from E-C Asia towards Eastern Europe happened over a full millennia before Herodotus describes the routing of the Massagetae from Central Asia.

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  9. #25
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    The forest steppe is undersampled in general. (For me proto-Uralic originated in the forest steppe, rather late and the expansions were mostly West to East, there should have been some EEF admixture too).

    I want samples from roughly Brest to Nizhny Novgorod. Are there any?

    The labels are problematic.

    Also, it would have been nice to sample the region where the so called 'Royal Scythians' inhabited, which was AFAIU west of Don, certainly east of Dnieper. I want Iron Age samples from the area between Donets and Don especially.

    Much later we find there Old Great Bulgaria and Saltovo-Mayaki culture.

    It would be interesting to compare Royal Scythians with the inhabitants of Old Great Bulgaria (600-700 AD) and also see what changes when Khazars dominate there (after 750 AD)
    Last edited by Kanenas; 07-12-2019 at 11:30 AM.

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  11. #26
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    Exactly the same story for MJ-31 Cimmerian.
    He is R1a-M417 with no downstream info.

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  13. #27
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    I modeled early Slavs with the new Chernyakhiv genomes and it seems they got some Chernyakhiv-like ancestry here, but this is maybe caused by their higher EEF-shift compared to Iron Age Balts and both (espeicially CZE_Early_Slav) have probably post proto-Slavic ancestry.

    "sample": "Test1:HUN_Avar_Szolad_-_Av2",
    "fit": 2.4989,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 61.67,
    "UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine": 25.83,
    "CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany": 9.17,
    "UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky": 3.33,
    "BGR_IA": 0,
    "Sarmatian_RUS_Urals": 0,

    "sample": "Test2:CZE_Early_Slav_-_RISE569",
    "fit": 2.3827,
    "Baltic_EST_IA": 37.5,
    "UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine": 25,
    "UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky": 14.17,
    "CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany": 10.83,
    "BGR_IA": 10,
    "Sarmatian_RUS_Urals": 2.5,
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Yes but it belongs to another branch, I was expecting the same branch. Practically all of Z7700 branches has a similar pattern with Iranian, Middle Eastern, South Asian, Central Asian and European splits. It looks like Z7700 branches were near the Ethnogenesis of Scythian and Indo Iranian peoples, a Central Asian/Iranian origin for Z7700 makes complete sense at the moment.

    The odds of this being random are fairly slim, its now 6 Scythian samples with J2a-Z7700, it was definitely part of the Saka expansions and likely part of all Iranian expansions of course branches, Z7700 is quite extensive and more complex, there will likely be a lot more when the final version of the Central and South Asian paper come out.
    There is also a later J2a sample from the Saltovo-Mayaki culture which was published a few years back now. Have you seen that one?

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Speaking of which, are you - or anyone else - able to check an haplogroup of a Scythian from Damgaard's "137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes"? More on point sample DA19.
    I'm asking because he's assigned to my haplogroup, but so far upstream its TMRCA is 10400 years (E-Y31991, which is E-M123 but negative for E-M34)
    I can check it out when I get home from work, what’s the name of the sample?
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    There is also a later J2a sample from the Saltovo-Mayaki culture which was published a few years back now. Have you seen that one?

    Yeah I have and he belongs to J2a2-PH1795, which seems to have spread with Turkish speakers, its somewhat present amongst Tatars and found in 3 adna Turkic samples, like Z7700 with Iranic speakers PH1795 must have been somewhere near Turkic ethnogenesis.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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