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Thread: Mapping Your Location (GEDmatch calculators)

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    Mapping Your Location (GEDmatch calculators)

    Some of the Oracle results people get tend to make sense but lack a context to which they can be interpreted. This is especially true when users examine results from several calculators.

    I attempted to convene this assortment of information by taking one Oracle result from four calculators (MDLP World-22, Eurogenes K13, Dodecad K12b and HarappaWorld) to see what sort of picture is painted on a map.

    This was done by visualising the genetic cline between proposed donor populations A and B and marking the point indicated by the Oracle program, repeating the process with other results, then creating a bounded area indicating likely area of ancestry. I've also charted my physical ancestry and where I should hypothetically land. The main caveat here came with the placement of the donor populations on the map, particularly with the Iranians, given they are mixed from across the country. I decided to place the Tajiks to the west (most likely sampling site) and the Iranians in the middle. The resulting image is shown below. You can also view the raw data (as well as the chosen Oracle results in bold) at the very bottom, as well as the step-by-step guide on how to create something similar.


    Summary of the results:

    • I consistently emerge as either mostly Iranian with minor European admixture or a Near-Eastern and Tajik combination on all tests.
    • The area bound by the four Oracle results is in the centre-north of the Iranian plateau. This is significantly east of the presumed overall location based on the two points of physical ancestral origin.
    • The most likely explanation is that my paternal side (Azeri Iranian) has a similar genetic constitution as my maternal (Persian) and most of my paternal ancestors expanded westwards from a common area. So, despite being from West Azerbaijan province and speaking Azeri as a mother-tongue, they will be similar to other north Iranians, which I'm not surprised to see. Incidentally, the same explanation applies to the Kurds, who generally sit in Northwest Iran despite being positioned even further west. The Iranic speakers (plus Azeris) inhabiting that horizontal stretch of land from Anatolia to Mazandaran are therefore likely to be of the same general genetic stock (there will of course be some differences, albeit minor).
    • Additionally, in support of the above, my maternal side's physical area of ancestry is well within the bounded area formed by the Oracle results.
    • One important point to raise is that the position of the Iranians would have made the bounded area more specific and probably localised to around the Alborz mountains beneath the Caspian sea.


    Reassuringly, this position corresponds perfectly with Humanist's Indo-European Language SPA map:


    Any comments would be welcomed, as would other members exploring their Oracle results in a similar manner here.

    Admixture Calculator Oracle results (criteria = all populations present on map, no diaspora populations, lowest genetic distance possible)
     

    Code:
    MDLP World-22
    #	 	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
    --->1	 	53.6%	 Druze (derived)	 +	46.4%	 Tadjik (derived)	 @	3.31<---
    2	 	56.2%	 Lebanese (derived)	 +	43.8%	 Tadjik (derived)	 @	3.78
    3	 	55.5%	 Jew_Georgia (derived)	 +	44.5%	 Tadjik (derived)	 @	4.28
    4	 	83.6%	 Turk (derived)	 +	16.4%	 Burusho (derived)	 @	4.29
    5	 	54.9%	 Jew_Syria (derived)	 +	45.1%	 Pashtun (derived)	 @	4.32
    6	 	82.5%	 Turk (derived)	 +	17.5%	 Pathan (derived)	 @	4.37
    7	 	63.8%	 Iranian (derived)	 +	36.2%	 Tatar_Crim (derived)	 @	4.39
    8	 	89.8%	 Turk (derived)	 +	10.2%	 Hindu (derived)	 @	4.51
    9	 	85.5%	 Turk (derived)	 +	14.5%	 Sindhi (derived)	 @	4.57
    10	 	82.3%	 Turk (derived)	 +	17.7%	 Balochi (derived)	 @	4.58
    
    Eurogenes K13
    #	 	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
    1	 	92.6%	 Iranian	 +	7.4%	 Southeast_English	 @	3.04
    2	 	92.7%	 Iranian	 +	7.3%	 Danish	 @	3.04
    3	 	92.1%	 Iranian	 +	7.9%	 German	 @	3.06
    4	 	91.1%	 Iranian	 +	8.9%	 Austrian	 @	3.07
    5	 	92.8%	 Iranian	 +	7.2%	 Orcadian	 @	3.08
    6	 	92.9%	 Iranian	 +	7.1%	 North_Swedish	 @	3.09
    7	 	92.9%	 Iranian	 +	7.1%	 Norwegian	 @	3.09
    --->8	 	91.1%	 Iranian	 +	8.9%	 Hungarian	 @	3.1<---
    9	 	92.8%	 Iranian	 +	7.2%	 Swedish	 @	3.1
    10	 	92.6%	 Iranian	 +	7.4%	 Dutch	 @	3.12
    
    Dodecad K12b
    #	 	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
    1	 	69.7%	 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar)	 +	30.3%	 Tajiks (Yunusbayev)	 @	2.58
    2	 	59.7%	 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar)	 +	40.3%	 Tajiks (Yunusbayev)	 @	2.64
    --->3	 	58.7%	 Assyrian (Dodecad)	 +	41.3%	 Tajiks (Yunusbayev)	 @	2.67<---
    4	 	59.6%	 Georgia_Jews (Behar)	 +	40.4%	 Tajiks (Yunusbayev)	 @	2.86
    5	 	94.6%	 Iranian (Dodecad)	 +	5.4%	 Ukranians (Yunusbayev)	 @	3.11
    6	 	95%	 Iranian (Dodecad)	 +	5%	 Russian_B (Behar)	 @	3.13
    7	 	94.9%	 Iranian (Dodecad)	 +	5.1%	 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)	 @	3.14
    8	 	95%	 Iranian (Dodecad)	 +	5%	 Russian (Dodecad)	 @	3.15
    9	 	95.1%	 Iranian (Dodecad)	 +	4.9%	 Belorussian (Behar)	 @	3.15
    10	 	94.9%	 Iranian (Dodecad)	 +	5.1%	 Polish (Dodecad)	 @	3.16
    
    HarappaWorld
    #	 	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
    1	 	92.3%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	7.7%	 ashkenazi (harappa)	 @	1.44
    2	 	92%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	8%	 ashkenazy-jew (behar)	 @	1.5
    3	 	94%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	6%	 tuscan (1000genomes)	 @	1.5
    4	 	95%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	5%	 italian (hgdp)	 @	1.5
    5	 	96%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	4%	 spaniard (1000genomes)	 @	1.54
    6	 	94.6%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	5.4%	 romanian-a (behar)	 @	1.6
    --->7	 	94.5%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	5.5%	 bulgarian (yunusbayev)	 @	1.61<---
    8	 	96.1%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	3.9%	 french (hgdp)	 @	1.62
    9	 	96.8%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	3.2%	 spain-basc (henn2012)	 @	1.69
    10	 	96.9%	 iranian (harappa)	 +	3.1%	 basque (hgdp)	 @	1.7


    1. Visit GEDmatch (presuming you already have genomic raw data and have an account, otherwise, acquire these)
    2. Select Admixture on the main menu.
    3. Insert your ID and select any of the open-source projects (MDLP, Eurogenes, Dodecad, HarappaWorld) and then any of the calculators.
    4. Once the calculator has finished, click the Oracle button (not Oracle-4) underneath your generated component scores.
    5. Scroll down to the bottom and inspect the "Mixed Mode Population Sharing:" results. Pick one, preferably one with the lowest genetic difference (GD) to ensure better accuracy and one which includes non-diaspora/recently non-admixed populations (localising Ashkenazi Jewish or African Americans as a donor population on a map will be difficult due to subjective guidance regarding their placement on a map).
    6. Repeat the above with at least two other calculators and keep note of the results. For a minimalist approach, Europeans are better off using Eurogenes, Dodecad and MDLP. South Asians are recommended to have HarappaWorld included. Those from elsewhere in the world are free to use any combination, as none of these are specific for other regions.
    7. Download this map (from Wikipedia) or the map below (for McDonald BGA version) and Paint.Net (open-source image editor). Feel free to use another editing software. I prefer Paint.Net because it indicates the 1/3 increments along any line drawn.
    8. Open the map with Paint.Net/another image editor. Pinpoint your McDonald BGA average spot or physical ancestral location if desired.
    9. With a colour specific to the open-source calculator you're going to use, pinpoint the location where each donor population for your selected Oracle result comes from. If uncertain, look up roughly where they're from (e.g. Pakistani Pashtuns will be around NW Pakistan close to the Afghan border). If a national average (e.g. German_Dodecad), place in the middle of the country.
    10. Draw a line between both donor populations. Estimate where on the line you'll fall. Note the numbers are flipped round in practice; for instance, if the Oracle is 70% German + 30% Ukrainian, the spot will end up around the 30% mark on the German end. Make a spot on the line wherever this may be.
    11. Repeat steps 9+10 for all the other Oracle runs, remembering to use different colours for the calculators to keep track.
    12. Join these spots together with a different coloured line, forming the "bounded area" where your ancestry can be narrowed down from.
    13. Completed. Make all the relevant inferences from the results, compare to the additional data in step 8 if present.
    mcdonald bga blank.png

  2. The Following 27 Users Say Thank You to DMXX For This Useful Post:

     AJL (12-27-2013),  Anglecynn (12-28-2013),  Asparuk (06-19-2014),  Bramoan (10-16-2015),  dragonsmoke (05-26-2015),  everest59 (08-04-2014),  FaerieQueene (06-25-2014),  fil (03-11-2015),  GabeGibeau (01-21-2014),  Hanna (08-08-2014),  Hayden (06-07-2017),  Humanist (12-27-2013),  Joe B (12-27-2013),  khanabadoshi (08-01-2015),  Mamluk (08-01-2014),  Mehrdad (08-04-2014),  MfA (07-28-2014),  N21163 (01-29-2014),  NK19191 (12-28-2013),  psaglav (01-15-2016),  Sangarius (06-21-2014),  Scarlet Ibis (12-28-2013),  Sein (12-27-2013),  spruithean (09-19-2017),  vatan (09-14-2016),  Wulf Talented (12-27-2013),  ZephyrousMandaru (12-27-2013)

  3. #2
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    You can do something similar with Population Finder purely algebraically as it were, essentially by inputting the populations (I use their capital cities) and their respective weights, then getting a GPS coordinate.

    For example, my own PF:

    Continent (Subcontinent) Population Percentage MOE
    Europe Finnish, French, Orcadian, Romanian, Russian 40.62% ±26.27%
    Europe (Southern European) Sardinian, Tuscan 59.38% ±26.27%

    Then I derive lat and long and paste into Excel:

    CITY LAT LONG WEIGHT
    Helsinki 60.207 24.917 0.08124
    Moscow 55.75 37.6167 0.08124
    Paris 48.908 2.329 0.08124
    Bucharest 44.418 26.082 0.08124
    Lerwick 60.163 -1.1 0.08124
    AVERAGE 53.8892 17.96894 0.4062 Karsin, Poland

    Cagliari 39.232 9.141 0.2969
    Florence 43.866 11.162 0.2969
    AVERAGE 41.549 10.1515 0.5938 Tyrhennian Sea

    WEIGHTED 46.56158924 13.32694413 1.000 Möderndorf, Austria

    This is a reasonable average of my known ethnicities.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Reassuringly, this position corresponds perfectly with Humanist's Indo-European Language SPA map
    Would like to add that these are the median coordinates for Indo-European speaking populations from a Eurogenes SPA run (excluding Indians and Pakistanis) from 2012.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJL View Post
    You can do something similar with Population Finder purely algebraically as it were, essentially by inputting the populations (I use their capital cities) and their respective weights, then getting a GPS coordinate.

    For example, my own PF:

    Continent (Subcontinent) Population Percentage MOE
    Europe Finnish, French, Orcadian, Romanian, Russian 40.62% ±26.27%
    Europe (Southern European) Sardinian, Tuscan 59.38% ±26.27%

    Then I derive lat and long and paste into Excel:

    CITY LAT LONG WEIGHT
    Helsinki 60.207 24.917 0.08124
    Moscow 55.75 37.6167 0.08124
    Paris 48.908 2.329 0.08124
    Bucharest 44.418 26.082 0.08124
    Lerwick 60.163 -1.1 0.08124
    AVERAGE 53.8892 17.96894 0.4062 Karsin, Poland

    Cagliari 39.232 9.141 0.2969
    Florence 43.866 11.162 0.2969
    AVERAGE 41.549 10.1515 0.5938 Tyrhennian Sea

    WEIGHTED 46.56158924 13.32694413 1.000 Möderndorf, Austria

    This is a reasonable average of my known ethnicities.
    we might be talking about the same thing, but it was explained to me as an example of yours.........from the % of PF, ie, sardinian capital, run 40.62% of the kilometres towards helsinki capital and plot mark, do the same for sardinain to moscow, paris, bucharest and lerwick...................then do the same for flaorence and the helsinki , moscow,paris, bucahest and lerwick .
    once all are plot , that area where all your plots are is you starting area.

    I did that with mine and it was about 30k difference with what doug plotted me


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

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    Our Azeri member Imadaddin Nasimi asked me to complete a similar chart based on several of his Oracle scores, and he was gracious enough to let me share it with the community.

    The most striking feature of his results here are the maintained ties with Central Asian Turkish speaking ethnic groups (Uyghur, Turkmen, Uzbek). With two of the three Oracle scores, a majority Armenian component was found. I commented that this was how I would've imagined Azeris from the Republic to be; predominantly south Caucasian with significant ancestry from Central Asia, clearly from Oghuz Turkish heritage. In Imadaddin's case, it appears to be at least 20% if the Central Asian Turkish values are to be interpreted literally. The net result is a bounded area over the Caspian Sea. The McDonald BGA average spot is also shown in green.


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    I've always wanted to try this out, when I first posted my FTDNA family finder results on another site a forumer there said if I ran a line from the Middle Eastern population towards London at 93.73% Km ( something like that ), I'd find my location? Somewhere around Kent/Netherlands?

    FTDNA results
    Continent (Subcontinent) Population Percentage Margin of Error
    Europe (Western European) Orcadian 93.73% ±1.91%
    Middle East Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite 6.27% ±1.91%

    Or is this sort of thing exclusively for Gedmatch Admix calculators? Cause I'd love to do that too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf Talented View Post
    Or is this sort of thing exclusively for Gedmatch Admix calculators? Cause I'd love to do that too!
    Anyone can calculate this sort of thing; it's literally just establishing both donor populations which constitute "you" genetically and then determining where you fall on that artificial cline based on your values.

    I had a go at yours, with "European" set on Orkney and "Middle-Eastern" on central Iraq. You end up in the upper-left quadrant of the North Sea. The only conceivable way you could end up around the Netherlands was if one of the donor sites was set further south (e.g. moving your "European" to the Midlands somewhere).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Anyone can calculate this sort of thing; it's literally just establishing both donor populations which constitute "you" genetically and then determining where you fall on that artificial cline based on your values.

    I had a go at yours, with "European" set on Orkney and "Middle-Eastern" on central Iraq. You end up in the upper-left quadrant of the North Sea. The only conceivable way you could end up around the Netherlands was if one of the donor sites was set further south (e.g. moving your "European" to the Midlands somewhere).
    Upper left quadrant of the North Sea? That's quite interesting, thanks though! If I gave you my oracle results, would you be interested in having fun with those? I'd be happy for you to post the results public too.

    Edit, or would there be no difference between Oracle results and the FTDNA population reference?
    Last edited by Wulf Talented; 12-27-2013 at 11:57 PM.

  13. #9
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    Oracle results would be preferred as they're more specific. I had a hard time deciding where to place the Near Eastern reference site in that above attempt.

    You're more than welcome to PM me your Oracle results from several calculators.

  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Oracle results would be preferred as they're more specific. I had a hard time deciding where to place the Near Eastern reference site in that above attempt.

    You're more than welcome to PM me your Oracle results from several calculators.
    Certainly, They'll be with you shortly!

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