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Thread: Serious question for genealogists, experts, and project admins.

  1. #1
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    Serious question for genealogists, experts, and project admins.

    I have ran into this same problem with admins inside the Albanian DNA project multiple times and with multiple people inside the project.

    Specifically, admins, yes admins in the project insist on these claims.

    I ask on knowledgeable, respected and/or ideally individuals with specialized degrees on the field of genetics to please answer these questions.



    - Insistation that R1A is Slavic. (I don't mean specific branches but R1a alone)

    - Insistation that if you have R1A you are Slavic. (I don't mean specific branches but R1a alone)

    - Insistation that if you have R-YP4278, then you are a Slav. (I don't mean specific branches of R-YP4278, but R-YP4278 alone)



    To understand my situation, I would like to say that I have nothing but respect for the Slavic speaking world. Russian people are some of the most amazing people I have known. In addition, I have no ill intents on South Slavic peoples as I view them as my own. I say this as an individual raised as Albanian and an individual that has no ill intents with this question. Would be honored to be a Slav. Can you please give your opinions on the accuracy of those 3 statements alone.


    Please comment on the above and please list your expertise on the field of genetics.


    Autosomal results for context.


    Last edited by trdbr1234; 07-13-2019 at 10:05 PM.

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    Can anyone comment on how Slavic R1a makes you?

    It is valid for any major haplogroup. R1B, I2a, E-V13, G etc.

    The answer is obvious to me. However, convincing them otherwise is similar to convincing Flat Earthers.
    Last edited by trdbr1234; 07-13-2019 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Well it depends. If your 8th great grandfather was R1a and Slavic, but the rest your 1023 8th great grandparents were not Slavic, and none of their descendants had Slavic spouses/mates, then you would 0.1% Slavic.

    If the rest of your 1023 8th grandparents were Slavic and all their descendants had Slavic spouses/mates then you would be 100% Slavic. This is a simplified example but you get the idea. Your paternal line is half your ancestry when it relates to your father, 25% of your ancestry when it relates to your paternal grandfather and so on.

    Plus not all R1a is Slavic in origin. There's plenty of R1a in Britain for example.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-14-2019 at 12:04 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Well it depends. If your 8th great grandfather was R1a and Slavic, but the rest your 1023 8th great grandparents were not Slavic, and none of their descendants had Slavic spouses/mates, then you would 0.1% Slavic.

    If the rest of your 1023 8th grandparents were Slavic and all their descendants had Slavic spouses/mates then you would be 100% Slavic. This is a simplified example but you get the idea. Your paternal line is half your ancestry when it relates to your father, 25% of your ancestry when it relates to your paternal grandfather and so on.
    Thank you Mitchell. We are in full agreement. I think I would call that nationality by autosomal descent.

    However, the insinuation is that regardless of your upbringing or nationality, simply having R1A makes you Slavic, because R1A is Slavic. Essentially, if you take a DNA test, and it says R1A in there, you are Slavic. I know amateurs makes these claims all the time, but it is being made by admins in a DNA project.
    Last edited by trdbr1234; 07-14-2019 at 12:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trdbr1234 View Post
    Thank you Mitchell. We are in full agreement. I think I would call that nationality by autosomal descent.

    However, the insinuation is that regardless of your upbringing or nationality, simply having R1A makes you Slavic, because R1A is Slavic. Essentially, if you take a DNA test, and it says R1A in there, you are Slavic. I know amateurs makes these claims all the time, but it is being made by admins in a DNA project.
    That's just silly. R1a predates Slavs by 1000s of years.

    So a present day individual from Sicily has a Norman I1 haplogroup paternal line dating back to 1130 AD. The rest of his ancestry is 100% Sicilian so he's a Viking? Or there's a Mayan Indian who has a single Conquistor R-DF27 paternal ancestor from 1500s so his 99.95% Mayan ancestry is null and void? I don't think so.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    That's just silly. R1a predates Slavs by 1000s of years.

    So a present day individual from Sicily has a Norman I1 haplogroup paternal line dating back to 1130 AD. The rest of his ancestry is 100% Sicilian so he's a Viking? Or there's a Mayan Indian who has a single Conquistor R-DF27 paternal ancestor from 1500s so his 99.95% Mayan ancestry is null and void? I don't think so.
    Can't agree more Mitchell.

    However, I have explained that R1A predates the Slavs, I have explained that your Y-DNA makes up a tiny portion of your DNA, I have explained that Y-DNA does not equate to nationality, I've explained that Y-DNA cannot have nationalities. However, this is a persistent issue with members and even admin in the Albanian Y-DNA project.

    It is more extreme than the examples you are referring to. I am literally saying that admins in Albanian DNA project make claims that R1a itself is Slavic and that if you have R1a itself, that makes you Slavic. As ridiculous as this sounds, this is a real issue with members from that project. It is Flat Earthers gone crazy.

    I'm not even sure what citation to use to explain to them that its not the case. Seems to me like common sense everyone should know.

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    Politics, religion, ethnicity, and/or nationalism cloud some people's minds to the point that they are practically immune to logical discourse and facts. Unfortunately, it is not an uncommon situation in the genetic community.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-14-2019 at 02:29 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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    Is there any specific paper that makes it clear that R1a cannot be Slavic?

    As absurd as this sounds. I find this hard because there are papers that explain the role of R1a branches in Slavic ethno-genesis.

    How can it be made clear as day that R1a does not equate to being Slavic to a mass of people whom are prone to flat earth theories?


    There is a massive lack of common sense in these people. Needs to be laid out in very simple terms.
    Last edited by trdbr1234; 07-14-2019 at 03:13 AM.

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    The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a
    Abstract
    R1a-M420 is one of the most widely spread Y-chromosome haplogroups; however, its substructure within Europe and Asia has remained poorly characterized. Using a panel of 16 244 male subjects from 126 populations sampled across Eurasia, we identified 2923 R1a-M420 Y-chromosomes and analyzed them to a highly granular phylogeographic resolution. Whole Y-chromosome sequence analysis of eight R1a and five R1b individuals suggests a divergence time of ∼25 000 (95% CI: 21 30029 000) years ago and a coalescence time within R1a-M417 of ∼5800 (95% CI: 48006800) years. The spatial frequency distributions of R1a sub-haplogroups conclusively indicate two major groups, one found primarily in Europe and the other confined to Central and South Asia. Beyond the major European versus Asian dichotomy, we describe several younger sub-haplogroups. Based on spatial distributions and diversity patterns within the R1a-M420 clade, particularly rare basal branches detected primarily within Iran and eastern Turkey, we conclude that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran.
    YFull: YF14620 (Dante Labs 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a
    Abstract
    R1a-M420 is one of the most widely spread Y-chromosome haplogroups; however, its substructure within Europe and Asia has remained poorly characterized. Using a panel of 16 244 male subjects from 126 populations sampled across Eurasia, we identified 2923 R1a-M420 Y-chromosomes and analyzed them to a highly granular phylogeographic resolution. Whole Y-chromosome sequence analysis of eight R1a and five R1b individuals suggests a divergence time of ∼25 000 (95% CI: 21 300–29 000) years ago and a coalescence time within R1a-M417 of ∼5800 (95% CI: 4800–6800) years. The spatial frequency distributions of R1a sub-haplogroups conclusively indicate two major groups, one found primarily in Europe and the other confined to Central and South Asia. Beyond the major European versus Asian dichotomy, we describe several younger sub-haplogroups. Based on spatial distributions and diversity patterns within the R1a-M420 clade, particularly rare basal branches detected primarily within Iran and eastern Turkey, we conclude that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran.
    Thank you, pmokeefe.

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