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Thread: Population genomics of the Viking world (bioxiv, 2019, Copenhagen)

  1. #321
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    I know DF27 were not thralls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    I know DF27 were not thralls.
    Not at all. They were the Aesir.
     


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  4. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    First off, I'm not sure that's true.

    Secondly, modern Scandinavia and Viking Age Scandinavia are separated by about a thousand years of genomic water under the bridge.

    Thirdly, it's pretty clear the Vikings took a lot of slaves from the Baltic coast. I'm not sure why you can't admit that. They also took slaves in Ireland and the British Isles. That's just what happened.

    Every people had slaves. Every people were slaves.
    And emancipated slaves often themselves had slaves!
    We have the Slave Dynasty in India where the slaves of slaves in turn became rulers.
    See also the Mamluks of Egypt.

    And the Saqaliba:
    "prominence of the Saqaliba – slaves of Slavic origin – across major areas of Fatimid administration, and in the affairs of the Fatimid household. The military and administrative involvement of the Slavs in early Fatimid history has been a subject of earlier scholarship, but the more recent availability of a number of Fatimid texts providing intimate, eye-witness accounts of the role of the Saqaliba among the Fatimids invites a fresh exploration of the subject. Drawing upon these texts as well as a range of non-Fatimid sources, this study examines the social and political developments in the nascent North African Fatimid state that led to the rise of the Saqaliba to prominent positions in the Fatimid administration and in their military and naval forces. The circumstances that enabled the Saqaliba to secure senior, trusted positions in the caliphal household and the reconfiguration of the Slavs’ social status through their religious allegiance to the Ismaili imam-caliph will also be examined."
    https://iis.ac.uk/academic-article/s...nth-century-ce

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  6. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Not at all. They were the Aesir.
    I was thinking more along the lines of DF27 are too hotheaded to be taken alive, but I'm not opposed to being the Norse Gods.

  7. #325
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    in the paper by price et al for stable isotopes at galgedil(fyn) they have identified six non-locals with two (1xM/1xF) being of a value >0,71 which occurrs across the north european plain incl the slavic/wendish areas, no clue for certain but maybe burial UO(M) 0.713 is VK139 with bygift iron-knife/beltbuckle/masses and food-offering(sheep)
    https://www.academia.edu/15245473/Ga...en_AD_800_1050

    in the 'viking' settlement of haithabu the registers mentioned the residents being danes, frisians, saxons and wends; so such constallations/interrections could have also existed in the other viking-age areas and as pointed out before by @Mitchellsince1883 that in this simple model danish could also be a standin for anglo-saxon/old-saxon; in addendum to christian and heathen during the early 11th it is known that a large army of wends plundered(+ratibor) jutland all the way up to ribe(bishopric) before getting defeated on return in an epic battle on the lürschauer heide which the skalde Þjóðólfr arnórsson phrased into a poem, and which also mentioned haithabu; so there are several such interractions from warfare/mercs, trade/merchants and even residents inside of settlements; coolest thing however is that also a prince of the rurikid dynasty was R1a M458/L1029+ finally some prominence
    Geno2.0NG 51%SEurope 19%WCEurope 13%Scandinavia 5%AsiaMinor 4%EEurope 4%GB&Ireland 3%Arabia myOrigins 52%WCEurope 40%SEEurope 5%BritishIsles 3%WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49%NWEuropean 27%SEuropean 13%MedIslander 11%Sardinian myHeritage 51.8%NWEuropean 33.2%Italian 7.9%Greek&SouthItalian 7.1%Balkan gencove 29%NItaly 19%EMed 15%NBritishIsles 12%SWEurope 10%NCEurope 9%Scandinavia 6%NEEurope GenePlazaK29 54.4%NWEurope 37.6%Greek/Albania 5.6%WAsian 2.4%SWAsia

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  9. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of DF27 are too hotheaded to be taken alive, but I'm not opposed to being the Norse Gods.
    Yeah, sure, you betcha, and the Irish are well known for their relaxed, mellow, apathetic demeanor.
     


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    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  11. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Yeah, sure, you betcha, and the Irish are well known for their relaxed, mellow, apathetic demeanor.
    True, true. But which haplogroup has had the most threads shut down here on he forum.

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  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    First off, I'm not sure that's true.

    Secondly, modern Scandinavia and Viking Age Scandinavia are separated by about a thousand years of genomic water under the bridge.

    Thirdly, it's pretty clear the Vikings took a lot of slaves from the Baltic coast. I'm not sure why you can't admit that. They also took slaves in Ireland and the British Isles. That's just what happened.

    Every people had slaves. Every people were slaves.
    I think another alternative to slavery is early Irish missionary work. The book by Thomas Cahill comes to mind, "How The Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe". Clergy at that time could marry and have children.

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  15. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    I think another alternative to slavery is early Irish missionary work. The book by Thomas Cahill comes to mind, "How The Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe". Clergy at that time could marry and have children.
    ... And be buried in a Scandinavian cathedral.

    I thought about it but I have no idea about the role and relevance of a Christian cleric in Scandinavian societies during the XIth century.

    The only sure thing is that DF27 aren't slaves.

    Regarding this competition on who resisted them better, looks like all the Spaniards of the time, both Christian and Muslim did it quite well and even kicked Björn Ironside's arse hardly but the Basque, despite been always proud of their indomitable character, they had a poorer performance and the Vikings even captured the king of Navarra.
    Last edited by Shadogowah; 07-19-2019 at 07:04 PM.
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  17. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacUalraig View Post
    May as well post the whole list, I had a quick look this morning and reckoned 3 M222s inc one S660.
    If that is the case, it would go a long way in proving that the gene flow from Ireland to Norway was very limited, or have had a limited impact on the modern day Norwegian genepool (contra the gene flow to Ireland from Norway).. As there are virtually no M222 in Norway today, only a handful of examples from Utsira island (Norways western most island, and it is an old fishing outpost with known links to Scotland etc), that is it..

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