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Thread: Population genomics of the Viking world (bioxiv, 2019, Copenhagen)

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    Still combing through these. Whomever described this as the northern equivalent of the Rome study was absolutely right. The Vikings must have been very cosmopolitan indeed, if still mostly in a Northern European context. I'm struck by the strong Balto-Slavic (and maybe just outright Baltic) drift in so many of these Gotland samples in particular.

    For those experts in NE Europe, what is the story with Estonians? Are they basically Finnicized Balts? They seem to cluster closer to the Balts in PCAs than to the Finns, Karelians, etc. Or at least intermediately:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-005eNQtl3...pe_1%25263.png
    Last edited by Michalis Moriopoulos; 10-23-2020 at 06:54 PM.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  3. #1732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Technology is amazing!! I am standing in a line for hours at Comic Con in San Diego, yet conversing with Helene Wilhelmson, one of the paper’s researchers about VK333 (she said I could copy to this thread):

    VK 333 has Sr 0.7077 (indicating place of residence during his childhood) which is rare in Europe. South East England is one possible origin but there are most likely other possibilities as well that we are unaware of currently. Some regions in France and possible the northwest of Scotland might also be options (compare to map Fig 9 in https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...type=printable) There are still huge areas in Europe and further east (East Baltic coasts and Russia) where the Sr baselines are entirely unknown so pinpointing an origin just from Sr is not something I´m entirely comfortable with (see my paper attached, my thesis is on academia if you are curious on details of Vk 333 (id 1028 there)).



    To make things complicated the O value (see paper attached for details) is -5.1 which is entirely ok for Öland. This value might be ok for England too but I really can´t say for sure that it is. We are lacking in proper baseline data generally for most regions and the O-variation is dependent on many factors of which some are more anthropogenic/cultural (for example if consuming water boiled or unboiled) and, additionally, shifting through time as the climate changes.



    Yes, he has a filed incisor, it is a very specific manner of filing unlike all other worldwide. There are just a few from Öland. Caroline Arcini recently published a survey of all known filed teeth (A book- The many faces of the Viking Age) and we´ve been discussing the meaning of the filed teeth for some years now. She has seen VK 333 up close and acknowledged him as filed in the same manner as all the hundreds of others she has seen in person. It is clear the main node is Gotland (the neighbour island where VK 333 was buried) but there are also singular finds from Denmark, Norway (unpublished), England (Dorset) and one in Egypt. It is only men but of all ages. We agree this is most likely indicating a cultural/social group connected with maritime environment and by all definitions today, Vikings.

    He also had perimortem sharp force traumas to the skull, killed in battle possibly? He had a "typical" VA burial for Öland, might even be considered very local (lime stone cist in a NS-direction, a tradition going back 1000 years on Öland) and with a knife.
    Hello, interesting stuff. Another Viking from the paper with deliberately-filed teeth looks to be VK261, yDNA DF27>ZZ12.

    VK261/Dorset-3736 (from Ridgeway Hill Mass Grave, Dorset, England) was one of a group of 54 executed Scandinavian men, 10th-11th century AD. Ten were tested for the paper.

    From Wikipedia: 'An analysis of teeth from ten of the skeletons was carried out by the NERC Isotope Geosciences Laboratory, part of the British Geological Survey. This found that the men had come from Scandinavia, with one thought to have come from north of the Arctic Circle, and had eaten a high protein diet comparable with human remains found at known sites in Sweden.' link

    From Population genomics of the Viking world, Supplementary Information: 'Isotope analysis performed on a number of skeletons suggests they were a disparate group of people in terms of their origins, migratory histories, and dietary habits, although a general emphasis on Arctic and sub-Arctic areas of Scandinavia, northern Iceland, the Baltic States, Belarus, and Russia, and on terrestrial food sources, are suggested. It appears that the majority were not living in the British Isles in the years leading to their deaths.'

    And: 'At least one individual [VK261] had filed teeth, seen as horizontal grooves on his central, upper incisors, possibly as a status symbol or a marker of occupation.'

    From an article about Caroline Ahlstom Arcini's book, of the 130-or-so cases of Vikings with deliberately-filed teeth to be discovered so far, almost all are from Sweden with a concentration on the island of Gotland (80%). VK333 was found on the neighbouring Swedish island of Öland. Of the few found outside Sweden, two are from Denmark. One, VK261, was found in Britain and there's the unpublished one, mentioned above, from Norway, plus the early-eighth century one from Egypt.


    Photo: British Museum
    Last edited by corner; 10-23-2020 at 07:15 PM.

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    I would love to know the DNA results of the sample from Egypt!
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Still combing through these. Whomever described this as the northern equivalent of the Rome study was absolutely right. The Vikings must have been very cosmopolitan indeed, if still mostly in a Northern European context. I'm struck by the strong Balto-Slavic (and maybe just outright Baltic) drift in so many of these Gotland samples in particular.

    For those experts in NE Europe, what is the story with Estonians? Are they basically Finnicized Balts? They seem to cluster closer to the Balts in PCAs than to the Finns, Karelians, etc. Or at least intermediately:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-005eNQtl3...pe_1%25263.png
    Estonians have regional variety, but essentially North Finnic speakers came from Estonia and gradually absorbed Saami, Germanic and East Finnic groups to themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Still combing through these. Whomever described this as the northern equivalent of the Rome study was absolutely right. The Vikings must have been very cosmopolitan indeed, if still mostly in a Northern European context. I'm struck by the strong Balto-Slavic (and maybe just outright Baltic) drift in so many of these Gotland samples in particular.

    For those experts in NE Europe, what is the story with Estonians? Are they basically Finnicized Balts? They seem to cluster closer to the Balts in PCAs than to the Finns, Karelians, etc. Or at least intermediately:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-005eNQtl3...pe_1%25263.png
    I am afraid nobody has an idea to be honest re Estonians and Balts.
    No straight forward answers.

    1) every Baltic Finnic language has a layer of real old Baltic loanwords. Including terms for family members, body parts, wooden constructions, some agriculture. So consensus seems to be: Baltic Finnic had a strong Baltic substrate.
    2) there appears to be no archaic Baltic hydronyms above Daugava (North Latvia or further Estonia). Which kinda points at some place more Eastern/Southern for Baltic substrate absorbsion into Baltic Finnic
    3) there was a population LVA_BA and EST_BA (all males R1a so far) with rather uniform genetic profile living both Latvia and Estonia before Baltic Finns and East Balts (?) arrived to Baltics. With unknown linguistic affinity - paraBalts? ParaBaltoSlavs? Some non Satemized preBaltoSlavic folk? See point 2. These or similar-ish genes survived and make significant part of modern Baltic States genes, peaking in Latvian.

    (1) Baltic linguistic substrate is common for all Baltic Finnic languages
    (3) Baltic BA -ish genetics are strongest in 3 Baltic states

    So perhaps all Baltic Finns had significant portion of their tribesmen/wives Finnified Balts before arrival to Baltic coast and Estonians got additional “Baltic State” genetics absorbed near Baltic coast. Or not, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    I would love to know the DNA results of the sample from Egypt!
    E-V22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    E-V22
    One of your ancestors visiting relatives from the old country?
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    One of your ancestors visiting relatives from the old country?
    dunno but obviously there was interaction.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Still combing through these. Whomever described this as the northern equivalent of the Rome study was absolutely right. The Vikings must have been very cosmopolitan indeed, if still mostly in a Northern European context. I'm struck by the strong Balto-Slavic (and maybe just outright Baltic) drift in so many of these Gotland samples in particular.

    For those experts in NE Europe, what is the story with Estonians? Are they basically Finnicized Balts? They seem to cluster closer to the Balts in PCAs than to the Finns, Karelians, etc. Or at least intermediately:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-005eNQtl3...pe_1%25263.png
    It's interesting that despite the majority of the viking era samples being so Baltic-like, the moderns of Gotland from the few Gedmatch kits I've seen seem to be very Scandinavian, close to South Swedes/Danes/Norwegians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    It's interesting that despite the majority of the viking era samples being so Baltic-like, the moderns of Gotland from the few Gedmatch kits I've seen seem to be very Scandinavian, close to South Swedes/Danes/Norwegians.
    I guess there was a demographic change following the formation of the modern Swedish state. If we go back even further I think the population of Gotland was quite distinct from mainland Swedes after the Neolithic farmers settled the rest of Scandinavia, with hunter-gatherer societies persisting for much longer. I presume the Baltic connection was strong even back then, because they also weren't as touched by the Neolithic farmers. Later we even see individuals buried Battle Axe-style, but with PWC-genetics:

    The researchers have analysed DNA from 25 Stone Age individuals from four Pitted Ware culture burial grounds on Gotland. About half of the individuals were buried in typical Pitted Ware culture graves and the other half of the graves showed influences from Battle Axe culture. To their surprise, the researchers found that none of the individuals were genetically related to people from Battle Axe culture. On the contrary, everyone appeared to belong to a very homogeneous group that demonstrated the most genetic similarity to the hunter-gatherer groups of earlier periods.

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