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Thread: Population genomics of the Viking world (bioxiv, 2019, Copenhagen)

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    Western Connaught was a patchwork of very ancient small tribes and clans of no great size and must have been vulnerable to Viking riads as this map shows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partra...SWConnacht.gif
    It would make sense then that Viking input there could have had a founder effect.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angantyr View Post
    No, read the whole thing, the "researcher" cut and pasted and reversed the embroidered pattern to create something that looked like square kufic script, but the textile was made hundreds of years before square kufic script was invented, so it's complete bollocks.

    Actual Arabic items did make their way to viking age Scandinavia, but I don't thing they travelled together with the haplogroups. I think if we get more DNA from European emporia from this era, we'll find odd haplogroups all over the place.

    Point taken, point clear. But with the development of a Viking expansion there was also a reverse movement from developed places, merchants from Southern Europe or even the Middle East, going to centers of the Viking world. That is not odd.
    Last edited by Finn; 07-24-2019 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    That's a different Izyaslav who lived in the 1200s. I think he was the son of this guy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_of_Kiev

    "Izyaslav [son of Ingvar], prince of Dorohobuzh" (1214/1223–1223)
    https://translate.googleusercontent....ASLd89xmPMIbwA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    And who has got an answer, or an educated guess, for the question mark of the "italian ancestry" among the Vikings?

    From what I see that southern ancestry is associated with many R1b subclades but usually not U106 and L21.

    The runes come from the Old Italic scripts, possibly a northern variant like Rhaetian. If that 'southern' admixture appears in central Germany around the 2nd century AD, then possibly that southern admixture appears along with the introduction of runes from Central Europe.

    And the possible linguistic affiliations include Tyrrhenian and Celtic.
    Last edited by Kanenas; 07-24-2019 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    So those Medieval Kvens mentioned in the sagas were probably just Southern Saami?
    Could be (but they were nomadic and few in number). However, there are a 1000 reasons why one should never take old maps, with population placement, at face value. As the people who made them and the sources they used are problematic, they are often political in nature. At least that is my experience when working with Chinese maps, with population placement, of central Asia from the 7-800's..

  7. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Thanks!

    So those "Kvens" just north of Arvika were probably Forest Finns or Southern Saami?
    Again, there were no forest Fins in that part of Scandinavia prior to the migrations in the 1600-1800's..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Regarding the Norse signal the Insular Celtic paper and the Irish DNA Atlas, also the PoBI said that it was less in England and Wales which is where the Normans came from to Ireland so possibly the Norse signal isn't related to the Normans? Otherwise shouldn't the Norse signal be picked up in England?
    The quote I posted earlier dismissed the Normans as having anything to do with the Norwegian signal in Ireland, as it arrived too early for it to be Norman related..

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  11. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    All R1b's from the list:

    Code:
    															
    VK545	Ireland_SSG12	Ireland	Dublin	Ship_Street_Great	7-9th centuries CE	1.852	Male	R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1a1a	H1bb
    If I'm reading my ISOGG code correctly this individual from Dublin is R-DF104 under M222. DF104 through it's major clade DF105 makes up 70-80% of all M222+ individuals.







    I remember when this individual was discovered in Dublin, what's interesting is not only is he M222+/DF104+ but autosomally he's the most 'Irish' of the 4 genomes recovered from Irish context.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikkaK View Post
    Do you have any links about the Finnish pendants and pottery near Birka?
    I Will try to look some for you. I am now in a middle of a move so my reference literature is all packed away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Here is something I find interesting. In Ireland, Norwegian-like ancestry is mostly in the far west of Ireland -- Connacht, as well as around Dublin probably up to about where Louth is. This was found to be true in another study on Ireland also I believe, and contradicts asinine assumptions that people in Connacht are some pure relic Irish with no outside influence on the basis of being the region with the most Gaelic speakers... apparently they have the most Viking influence.

    Given that Connacht was mostly conquered by the Normans in the 14th century I fail to see why you keep bringing up this canard, 200 years ago Munster had more Irish speakers than Connacht mainly as Munster had a bigger population, though in both cases there was fairly equivalent percentage of speakers.


    What's important of course is that Munster had three Viking cities (Waterford, Cork and Limerick) whereas there was no permanent settlement in Connacht, actually there was none north of line from Galway to Dublin which, obviously there were seasonal longphort's but that's about it. There was however considerably more population flow from the Hebrides into the west of Ireland during the middle ages than there was into Munster.

    The obvious solution of course would be to sequence large number of genomes from across Ireland from the period 400-900AD. This would provide baseline population in the pre-Viking age period to compare the modern population against.
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