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Thread: Population genomics of the Viking world (bioxiv, 2019, Copenhagen)

  1. #691
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    Finn, do you know your maternal grandfather's y-dna haplogroup? Is it U106?

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     JonikW (08-23-2019)

  3. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the Tumulus of Drouwen (Sögel-Wohlde-Elp). (Side kick remark, my mothers family is originated there).




    It belonged to the subtop in the Unetice hierarchy (the one with the golden hair ring).

    Thanks Finn. I always enjoy your sparring with rms2 on the subject of U106. I never fail to learn something, and that's what I'm here for.
    Living DNA's former Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,250 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  5. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Thanks. From memory I1 approaches a majority in southern Sweden but is somewhat less heavily represented elsewhere, although it's still significant throughout. I was looking at the percentage weightings in this case because proportionally they should be directly comparable. I would assume so anyway, but perhaps I'm missing something.
    I know it's dated (2004), and it's all modern y-dna, but Rootsi et al is the classic y-haplogroup I study, unless I missed something (and I might have, because I don't keep up with y-dna haplogroup I, despite having a couple of I lines in my pedigree).

    In Rootsi, I-M253 is I1a.

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  7. #694
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    It's simple a fact that R1b U106 in it's hotspot North Dutch was not earlier than about 1800 BC in Oostwoud, that has a relationship with Sögel-Wohlde or Elp culture. This is an outlier of the Unetice culture and is not a Scania derivative.

  8. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It's simple a fact that R1b U106 in it's hotspot North Dutch was not earlier than about 1800 BC in Oostwoud, that has a relationship with Sögel-Wohlde or Elp culture. This is an outlier of the Unetice culture and is not a Scania derivative.
    Who says Elp is "an outlier of the Unetice culture and is not a Scania derivative" besides you?

    Elp extended up into Jutland and is not found in Central Europe.

    Is your maternal grandfather U106? Do you know? I'm just curious; it really doesn't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It's simple a fact that R1b U106 in it's hotspot North Dutch was not earlier than about 1800 BC in Oostwoud, that has a relationship with Sögel-Wohlde or Elp culture. This is an outlier of the Unetice culture and is not a Scania derivative.
    Can you answer about your maternal grandfather's haplogroup Finn? I think full disclosure is important, which is one of the benefits of our profile info.
    Last edited by JonikW; 08-23-2019 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Wrote paternal instead of maternal...
    Living DNA's former Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,250 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Who says Elp is "an outlier of the Unetice culture and is not a Scania derivative" besides you?

    Elp extended up into Jutland and is not found in Central Europe.

    Is your maternal grandfather U106? Do you know? I'm just curious; it really doesn't matter.
    It has Tumuli like the Unetice culture and the swords are from the Moravian-Hungarian room, sounds pretty Central Europe to me.

    I don't know the Y-DNA of my maternal grand father he died in 1983.
    Last edited by Finn; 08-23-2019 at 05:44 PM.

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    Prof Harry Fokkens (1998):
    ''The northern Netherlands is part of the northern group (NW Germany and Denmark) especially of the Sögeler Kreis characterized by a number of distinctive men's graves. The Drouwen grave is the best known Dutch example.It's remarkable that the Elp culture has never been presented as the immigration of a new group of people. Because clearly this period was a time when a number of new elements made their entry while others disappeared. The disappearance of beakers, the appearance of the Sögel men's graves with the first 'swords', among other things, the fully extended burial posture, under barrows; all the factors have been reason enough in the past to conclude that the Elp culture represented an immigration of Sögel warriors."

    Immigration of new people. And the first appearance of R1b U106. Totally coincidence or not.....!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It has Tumuli like the Unetice culture and the swords are from the Moravian-Hungarian room, sounds pretty Central Europe to me.
    But no one else says Elp came from Unetice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post

    I don't know the Y-DNA of my maternal grand father he died in 1983.
    Got an uncle or a cousin to test?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    But no one else says Elp came from Unetice.



    Got an uncle or a cousin to test?
    Unetice is to early but a movement from the Central European room

    Would be an idea!!! I could ask my cousin.

    I'm not the only one!

    Google translate:
    The early Bronze Age is divided into two sections in Lower Saxony. There existed during the early section nor the Neolithic single tomb culture, which asserted itself in Northwest Germany in addition to the Aunjetitzer culture. The grave burial of Metzendorf-Woxdorf (Harburg district) is considered a grave of the single grave culture with strong connections to the Aunetitzer culture of Bohemia. At this time, numerous bronze Randleistenbeile arrived to Lower Saxony, whose localities on the Weser form a clear western boundary.
    In the final section of the early days of the bailiwick, the Sögel-Wohlde-Kreis was formed in north-western Germany. It was built between 1600 and 1500 BC. Chr. Is detectable. He was named after the Lower Saxony sites Sögel (Kreis Emsland) and Dohnsen-Wohlde (Celle) named. It was not a culture, but a Grabsittenkreis, for which certain weapons in man graves are typical.
    The Sögel-Wohlde-Kreis was widespread in eastern North Rhine-Westphalia, Lower Saxony and southern Schleswig-Holstein. In the west he reached northern Holland. Its eastern border was marked by the circles Celle, Soltau-Fallingbostel and Harburg.
    In the eastern Ilmenau valley (circles Lüneburg and Uelzen) and in Hanoverian Wendland (circle Lüchow-Dannenberg) and in the Altmark was followed by the latest single grave culture parallel to the Sögel-Wohlde-Kreis with the last influences of Aunitzitzer culture, which is characterized by certain Randleistenbeile These hatchets did not reach west beyond the Ilmenautal. The best time for this phase is documented east of the Sögel-Wohlde-Kreis by some clay pots from the urn cemetery Hamburg-Sande.

    http://archaeologie-welt.blogspot.co...00-1500-v.html

    Aunjetitzer= German for Unetice

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