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Thread: Iranian Arabs

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    Iranian Arabs

    Is anyone aware of the genetic profiles of Iranian Arabs? I wondered about this for a long time. I would suspect those in khuzestan(where most live) to be similar to Iraqi Arabs or Iraqi/Persian mixes while those in bandar Abbas may be like saudis or Saudi Persian mixes. Unfortunately the entire region is so poorly sampled.

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    We don't have any autosomal data for them, as far as I'm aware. I also haven't seen any fully Iranian Arab individuals who've tested with the likes of 23andMe or FTDNA declare themselves online.

    Iranian Arabs are mostly present along the country's southern coastline (from Khuzestan up to the Gulf of Oman). Some (those from Khuzestan) have relatively recent Arabian origins (the best-attested migration of Arabian tribes into Khuzestan took place only a few centuries ago). Others (mostly those from the southern Iranian coastline) have an arguably greater antiquity, with respect to the application of the "Iranian Arab" ethnonym, as they're largely a by-product of a trans-Gulf merchant network that appears to go back to the Sassanid period. There's also a tribal group in Khorasan with Arabian origins that claims direct descent from the Medieval Arabs whom invaded Persia (though, apparently, most of them have adopted Persian as their primary language).

    As is the case with Iranian Azeris and their/"our" East Eurasian admixture, I'd expect a non-uniform distribution when it comes to Peninsular Arab ancestry, though their average would clearly be significantly higher than that seen in neighbouring groups (which looks to be negligible/nil).

    Per the analysis here, all Iranians (including Zoroastrians) have a Levant_ChL/BA-derived surplus in ancestry which isn't derived from Peninsular Arabs (at least, going by the inclusion of BedouinB, though this isn't a perfect test, as modern Bedouins are clearly a drifted outcome of the historical Medieval Peninsular Arabs). As such, it'll be difficult to tease out the true extent of Arabian ancestry in a given individual as a result.

    I've been told by Arab friends that the dialect of Arabic used by Iranian Arabs (both those from Khuzestan and also the southern Iranian coast) is near-identical to the Baghdadi variant.
    Last edited by DMXX; 07-28-2019 at 12:39 AM. Reason: grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    We don't have any autosomal data for them, as far as I'm aware. I also haven't seen any fully Iranian Arab individuals who've tested with the likes of 23andMe or FTDNA declare themselves online.

    Iranian Arabs are mostly present along the country's southern coastline (from Khuzestan up to the Gulf of Oman). Some (those from Khuzestan) have relatively recent Arabian origins (the best-attested migration of Arabian tribes into Khuzestan took place only a few centuries ago). Others (mostly those from the southern Iranian coastline) have an arguably greater antiquity, with respect to the application of the "Iranian Arab" ethnonym, as they're largely a by-product of a trans-Gulf merchant network that appears to go back to the Sassanid period. There's also a tribal group in Khorasan with Arabian origins that claims direct descent from the Medieval Arabs whom invaded Persia (though, apparently, most of them have adopted Persian as their primary language).

    As is the case with Iranian Azeris and their/"our" East Eurasian admixture, I'd expect a non-uniform distribution when it comes to Peninsular Arab ancestry, though their average would clearly be significantly higher than that seen in neighbouring groups (which looks to be negligible/nil).

    Per the analysis here, all Iranians (including Zoroastrians) have a Levant_ChL/BA-derived surplus in ancestry which isn't derived from Peninsular Arabs (at least, going by the inclusion of BedouinB, though this isn't a perfect test, as modern Bedouins are clearly a drifted outcome of the historical Medieval Peninsular Arabs). As such, it'll be difficult to tease out the true extent of Arabian ancestry in a given individual as a result.

    I've been told by Arab friends that the dialect of Arabic used by Iranian Arabs (both those from Khuzestan and also the southern Iranian coast) is near-identical to the Baghdadi variant.
    Many Arab tribes in the fertile crescent have a reported history of being from the Arabian peninsula proper but from what Ive seen on many genetic tests, many actually turn out to be wholly, predominantly, or at least majority local to the region in which they live. IIRC, in the case of many gedmatch Iraqi samples they appear to have a strong Iranian shift and are only part Arabian if at all. I wonder if it could also be that the Arabs in Iran are Elamite or Mesopotamian descendants rather than of Iranian/Arab stock. It is the heart of elam and just bordering what was Sumeria.

    And the fact these people speak the Iraqi dialect rather than say a Saudi or Yemeni one would surely suggest a deeper connection as well...
    Last edited by Censored; 07-28-2019 at 01:03 AM.

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    As a southern Iranian, my family members matched a few Iranian Arabs and based on what Ive seen from them, I think the true answer to their origins will be quite varied. The ones we matched indeed looked like regular southern Iranians, but I'm sure this will vary greatly on the individual, with some being heavily Arab shifted and some being virtually indistinguishable from other Iranians. Much like most Azeri from Iran on a genetic scale are pretty much northern Iranians who adopted Turkish cultural customs and language, I think what you will find is that most Iranian Arabs are Arabized Iranians, but it wont be as plain and simple as that. I would guess that there will be a cline existing in terms of how Arab shifted they will be, and there's no doubt that Arab admixture will probably be present in a good chunk of them, but exactly how much remains to be seen.

    This reminded me of a Saudi match a while ago we had on 23andme which happened to show up on GEDmatch too, so I was able to check their genetic profile and interestingly enough it turned out they was actually heavily Iranian shifted, despite having fully Arabic surnames and all 4 grandparents born in Saudi Arabia. I think due to movement going both ways it will be hard to distinguish between how much genuine Arab admixture there is. This is quite often the case with the Iraqi matches we have, which actually descend from Iranians who settled there and became arabized.
    Last edited by ancestryfan1994; 08-23-2019 at 04:44 PM.
    My families admixture history.

    * 90% ~ Iranian
    * 4% Indonesian (Native Indonesian, and minor Japanese).

    * North Italian and Dutch.

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