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Thread: I-P37, what does it mean?

  1. #1
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    I-P37, what does it mean?

    Hi, I was hoping someone here could help me understand results from FTDNA. My cousin did a Y-67 test with FTDNA to try and determine the origins of his male line, or any other interesting information it might tell us about the family. The results are in, and I am completely confused. Here is what the site says are the results:

    Your Predicted Haplogroup is I-P37

    Haplogroup I dates to 23,000 years ago, or older. The I-P215 lineage is about 15,000 years old and began in southern Europe. Today it is found primarily in Sardinia and the Balkans. Haplogroup I represents one of the first peoples in Europe.


    It seems the last bit of information (sorry, again, I don't have the vocabulary to discuss this well) is L460, test for P37......then it lists another product we should buy to learn more. The only match that came up at Y-67 is an Austrian (the male line that was tested can traced to the Greek island of Fourni with our papertrail.) Here is what the match says.

    Comparison Chart
    Generations Percentage
    4 3.92%
    8 32.52%
    12 68.13%
    16 88.78%
    20 96.78%
    24 99.2%

    I'm really at a loss. I can't seem to find any specific information or maps, it seems these categories change names, or go by different names, or maybe nobody really knows anything? I raised money at the family reunion to pay for this test and am going to give a brief presentation of what we found out. Any help in figuring out what these results mean would be great. Thanks!

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  3. #2
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    https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-P37/

    From what I can see I-P37 is the same as I-P37.2 and downstream of I-L460. I-P37 is quite old (it formed, meaning it split from its parent group 20,800 ybp, years before present) and it has a TMRCA that is also quite old (common ancestor of all modern I-P37 people) estimated to have lived 18,200 ybp.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...DNA.shtml#I2a1

    You could save up money for a more in-depth SNP testing route (Big Y700) to determine where exactly you fit under I-P37 and what your terminal SNP is (final mutation if you will).
    Last edited by spruithean; 07-22-2019 at 05:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-P37/

    From what I can see I-P37 is the same as I-P37.2 and downstream of I-L460. I-P37 is quite old (it formed, meaning it split from its parent group 20,800 ybp, years before present) and it has a TMRCA that is also quite old (common ancestor of all modern I-P37 people) estimated to have lived 18,200 ybp.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...DNA.shtml#I2a1

    You could save up money for a more in-depth SNP testing route (Big Y700) to determine where exactly you fit under I-P37 and what your terminal SNP is (final mutation if you will).
    Thank you so much. I guess this is bad news then right? The "big reveal" is that the male line of that cousin split from some other male line 18,000 years ago? I am confused because I have talked to other people who did a Y-67 level test and had it place the haploid group in a location as recently as 900AD in one case, and 1200AD in another. I guess we are not that lucky?

    I really doubt I could raise the money for a Y-700 test, but if I was able to, would it tell us about where the male line was more recently in time, or in a more specific geographic location? Or would it just spit back letter/number combinations on the Y-tree?
    Last edited by Greekscholar; 07-22-2019 at 08:40 PM.

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    No, the haplogroup itself is given the age estimates in the link I provided. A genealogically relevant match will be more recent. A 67 match within a certain range, in theory, denotes a common ancestor.

    What is the genetic distance you have with your Austrian match?

    Big Y would provide a more in depth haplogroup call and allow for more reliability when determining legitimate matches.

    You could however join a relevant Y-DNA project at FTDNA and perhaps a project admin there could help guide you to certain SNP packs to test?
    Last edited by spruithean; 07-22-2019 at 08:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    No, the haplogroup itself is given the age estimates in the link I provided. A genealogically relevant match will be more recent. A 67 match within a certain range, in theory, denotes a common ancestor.

    What is the genetic distance you have with your Austrian match?

    Big Y would provide a more in depth haplogroup call and allow for more reliability when determining legitimate matches.

    You could however join a relevant Y-DNA project at FTDNA and perhaps a project admin there could help guide you to certain SNP packs to test?
    Since each marker has a different mutation rate, identical Genetic Distances will not necessarily yield the same probabilities. In other words, even though XXXXXX has a Genetic Distance‡ of 7 from XXXXXX, someone else with the same Genetic Distance may have different probabilities, because the distance of 7 was prompted by mutations in different markers, with different mutation rates.

    I will have to work with the information provided by the existing test for now. I can't justify spending more money on this type of test until I can make some sense of the results. I'm just struggling to understand why other people buy the same test and find ancestral regions within the last 1,000 years, while our family results tell us nothing beyond 18,000 years ago. Am I misunderstanding what the results are? Is it because it is a less common haploid group? The other people I mentioned were all R1b1 and had their haploid group specifically placed in the British Isles.

    I have to talk to my cousin about joining a project. I literally heard nothing back from him when I sent him the results. He was a reluctant tester to begin with, and I wasn't able to create any narrative around the results to have them make any sense to him (or me.) Thanks again.

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    What do you mean by ancestral regions? Are you referring to autosomal DNA tests where they give you ethnicity estimations?

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    I know a person that tested and received R-M269.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M269

    There is so much information on this line. He found very specific Y-matches in northern Ireland, including his surname (which I didn't think we would find, but I at least hoped to match to some location.) So, I guess their results are a combination of having a more "famous" haploid and it being common enough that many who have it have tested. Am I wrong to say they got much more for their money? Or again, am I just not interpreting the results correctly?

    What I was hoping to find was some idea of where the male line lived at some point in recent time. I am strongly of the opinion that the surname was changed, and hoped that a Y-test would help trace back the male line and give us some guesses on possible original surnames, or cluster around one island or geographic area, and I don't think I found that information.

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    double post
    Last edited by Greekscholar; 07-22-2019 at 09:36 PM. Reason: double post

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    R-M269 is sort of the most in-depth call FTDNA can provide without SNP testing, however R-M269 is quite basal on the R tree and the person you know who had this result is certainly far more than R-M269 (probably R-L21 if he has British Isles roots). Because of such a basal call as R-M269 it can be uncertain as to which STR matches are legitimate or are because of convergence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    R-M269 is sort of the most in-depth call FTDNA can provide without SNP testing, however R-M269 is quite basal on the R tree and the person you know who had this result is certainly far more than R-M269 (probably R-L21 if he has British Isles roots). Because of such a basal call as R-M269 it can be uncertain as to which STR matches are legitimate or are because of convergence.
    Hmm....so is it safe to say our R-M269 friend did "get lucky" in that he has a common last name and is Irish-American meaning there are more samples in the database to match him too?

    Also, what does the genetic distance of 7 mean? Is that a close match? My cousin had matches with people who tested with fewer markers, I should check the distance on those matches too right? If I am following, some of them could be closer relatives, but because of the test they purchased, wouldn't appear on the same screen.

    Thanks so much. This is starting to make some sense.

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