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Thread: Norse colonization of North America and I1-M253

  1. #1
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    Smile Norse colonization of North America and I1-M253

    To date we have two exclusively by American I1 subclades of pre-Columbian age:

    I-Y15031, formed 2100 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybp: TMRCA is low, but the formation time is earlier than Vikings period
    I-BY1089, formed 2700 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybp, fits in the period of Norse colonization of North America

    Erik Thorvaldsson, is it you?

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    Both downstream suclades of I1-BY1089 located on East (Atlantic) Coast of USA, relatively close to Vinland, land of grapes
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    South Carolina and Virginia are not exactly "close" to Newfoundland. These are reported genealogies from Americans who've not yet determined who their immigrant ancestor was. I highly doubt they are the descendants of Norse settlers of Vinland.

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    spruithean, thanks for your interest. My post is just one of possible scenarios.
    South Carolina and Virginia are not exactly "close" to Newfoundland.
    Exact location of Vinland still unknown, theories only. If they really saw grapes, it was only along the eastern seaboard from Nova Scotia down to Georgia.
    Theory of Cape Cod and Narragansett Bay.

    Also look at their upstream subclades (I-Y15030 and I-Y36072): both of them have only Scandinavian downstreams.
    Last edited by Farroukh; 07-24-2019 at 10:12 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    spruithean, thanks for your interest. My post is just one of possible scenarios.

    Exact location of Vinland still unknown, theories only. If they really saw grapes, it was only along the eastern seaboard from Nova Scotia down to Georgia.
    Theory of Cape Cod and Narragansett Bay.
    Vinland was a failed colony, no? As in it was abandoned due to various reasons. New Brunswick is another likely location outside of Newfoundland (considering the lack of grapes in NFLD). Both these areas aren't too far from other Norse colonies in Greenland.

    While I'm open to the idea of descendants of Norse settlers of North America still walking among us we'd first need to see evidence from the people on the YFull branches you linked. Do they report themselves as "Native American"?

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    We have no final evidence now. European subclades among Native Americans and someone self-identity are not the proof too. Only aDNA results from Viking remnants in North America will reveal it.

    I just share my idea (as one of many hypotheses):
    - roots of both suclades are in Scandinavia, no other European matches
    - their TMRCA fits with age of Viking seawalkings
    - their recent location is eastern seaboard
    Last edited by Farroukh; 07-24-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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    Also keep in mind the TMRCA date has a rather wide CI. I-Y15031's is 500-275 ybp and I-BY1089 2000-500 ybp for example
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    [1] "distance%=1.3492"

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    TMRCA and formation period are important. I1 is one of well sequenced haplogroups. These two suclades have only Scandinavian co-branches with pre-Viking time to coalescence.
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    There were plenty of Scandinavians who moved to the Americas during the colonial period, I find it very unlikely that either of those are pre-Columbian
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Also keep in mind the TMRCA date has a rather wide CI. I-Y15031's is 500-275 ybp and I-BY1089 2000-500 ybp for example
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    TMRCA and formation period are important. I1 is one of well sequenced haplogroups. These two suclades have only Scandinavian co-branches with pre-Viking time to coalescence.
    Agreed. I highly doubt it's pre-Columbian.

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