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Thread: E-M293 clade

  1. #1
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    E-M293 clade

    Hello,

    I'm Tutsi from Rwanda and carries E-M293 y-dna but on living dna they gave me E-Z830, which I think it's an ancestral clade.
    Anyone knows when the mutation occured and it's ancestral and sibling clades.

    Thank you very much
    Rwaka

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    Dear Rwaka, welcome to forum!

    I'm Tutsi from Rwanda and carries E-M293
    Which lab tested you for M293+?
    M293 in East Africa region connected with Hamite migrations of E-Z1267 farmers and herders from Ethiopia.

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    Most distant known paternal ancestor: Agha Nizar Daylami, Hidden Content Hidden Content (missionary), born circa ~1420, Hidden Content

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  5. #3
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    Thanks for the information. It's 23andme that tested me with E-M293. I also ran my ancestrydna raw data in morley y-dna and E-M293 came as the most likely. Do you have any more details about E-Z1267 and all the clades that predated it?

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  7. #4
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    If you interested in scientific papers let me recommend you to read this:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2504844/

    https://books.google.az/books?id=2HM...6AEwDnoECAkQAQ
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    Most distant known paternal ancestor: Agha Nizar Daylami, Hidden Content Hidden Content (missionary), born circa ~1420, Hidden Content

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  9. #5
    E-M293 gets its fame as the diagnostic South Erythrean paternal lineage, and it was well known for this even before the PN/ELM 2019 paper. It is an E-M35 lineage, however it is E-Z827, a brotherly lineage to E-L539 (E-M78's predecessor). The last common ancestor for all E-M293 thus far lived around 4,500 years ago, just around the time (+/- a few hundred years) South Erythrean broke off from East Erythrean likely somewhere in the Horn, and specifically in the Somali lowlands where 5,000 year old Erythrean pastoralist cattle herding cultures existed, and who even depicted in ancient cave paintings cattle of the type ancestral to Tutsi and Great Lakes cattle. The Natufians were E-Z830, and are the earliest E-Z830 and E-Z827 recorded. The earliest E-M35 and E-L539 however, are the Ibermaursians of NW Africa, and the Natufians had ancestry from people similar to these earlier E-M35 Ibermaursians - not the other way around.

    The earliest known member of your lineage is in a 3,000 year old Pastoral Neolithic South Erythrean nomad (I8809), who was also mtdna M1a1 like yourself. Around half of the 22 PN/ELM South Erythrean ancients had or likely carried E-M293. The earliest (mentioned) was 1,000-1,500 years removed from the mrca. By 4,000 years ago, it's likely your South Erythrean ancestors had crossed past the Tana river and into the Rift from northern Kenya.

    Here's an overview of your lineage:

    E-M35>E-Z827>E-Z830>E-CTS10880 (E-V1515)>E-Y5861>E-CTS1177 (E-V1846)>E-Z1267>E-M293

    The closest lineages to E-M293 are other E-Z1267 lineages, with which E-M293 shares a 5,000 ybp mrca. E-V1515 - the E-M35 lineage most non-E-M78 Erythreans have and to which E-M293 belongs - despite it being an old lineage, was most likely a founding lineage of the pre-proto-Erythreans. Your closest relatives outside of other E-M293 and E-Z1267 carriers would be other E-V1515 men, who are present in high frequencies throughout the Horn and in every major Erythrean sub-group except the Beja. E-V151 has two major lineages: E-V1700 and E-V1486, the latter to which E-M293 belongs. The most ancestral and basal E-V1515 lineages are all clustered in northern Eritrea and Ethiopia amongst the Ethiosemitic Tigray and Amhara, Central Erythrean Agew and Ethiopian Jews, and the Nilo-Saharan Kunama and Nara - the latter 2 Nilo-Saharan groups being heavily admixed with the neighboring Ethiosemitic groups. The East Erythrean Afar and Ethiosemitic Amhara are rich in E-V6 - a E-V1515 lineage more distant to E-M293, being as it is a E-V1700 lineage along with E-V42. Another E-V1515 lineage, a brother lineage of E-M293 as they both are E-V1486 (the other major E-V1515 lineage) is E-V92, a lineage found almost solely in Habeshas, and same goes for aforementioned E-V42 (a E-V1700 lineage), which seems as of now wholly restricted to more northern parts of Ethiopia amongst Central Erythreans (Ethiopian Jews) and the Kunama and Nara, and Amhara, but at much higher frequencies than E-V92. E-V1785* (E-GG24), a basal E-V1515 lineage ancestral to E-V6, makes up more than a quarter amongst the Tigray, and the same situation exists for ancestal E-V1486* - the other major E-V1515 lineage and the one ancestral to E-M293. As such, the two major branches of E-V1515 have their basal lineages in high frequency amongst the Tigray and northern Ethiosemites and the Nilo-Saharan Kunama and Nara (who have heavy sex-biased admixture from the aforementioned groups). Outside of the Horn, only E-V6 (along with E-V32) is also found in NW Egyptians from Siwa and Baharia. The lineage is present in the Arabian peninsula due to both long-term Aksumite socio-political hegemony in the late centuries BC and early AD, and later medieval, early modern, and late modern Horn African mamluks and slave armies, and slave-administrators, many whom settled and intermarried with the local Arab populations they policed and governed under various Arabian dynasties and monarchies.

    Of the two major branchings of E-V1515, E-V1486 looks to be a major lineage of the South-East Erythrean population of Somali lowlands 5,000 years ago. It contains both E-M293 and E-V2881, the former most strongly associated with South Erythreans and found in the majority of South Erythrean males. E-V2881 is associated and found most significantly in East Erythreans in turn, especially in Oromos. While I have not seen any E-V2881 in the ancient samples or in modern populations south of Kenya, E-M293 has been recorded in Oromos, Wolaytas, and other East Erythrean and Erythrean and Omotic ethnic groups from southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya. It may be that E-M293 may have East Erythrean branch, and the South Erythreans a branch of E-V32 - especially as the earliest recorded E-V32 male was found amongst the South Erythreans, and a more basal E-V32 is found amongst Kenyan Nilotic and Bantu groups, and especially amongst the Bantu Luhya (although their E-Z813 is possibly of recent Boran Oromo origin). The same might be true for E-V2881. As such, it is likely that the E-V1515 lineages of the South Erythreans was not solely E-M293, and I'm sure at some point some Khoe, Xhosa, or Great Lakes pastoralist guy will get tested and show up with E-V2881 or some other E-V1486 or even E-V1700, just as we continue to find more E-M293 in Oromos and Wolaytas, and other East Erythrean, Omotic, and other Horn African groups.

    Your ancestors - the South Erythreans - were likely the first NE African nomads to penetrate successfully south of the northern Frontier-south Somalia tropical-riverine zone and into Southeast Africa, and from there further afield, and by 2,000 South Erythrean clans and subgroups probably went past the Zambezi river into Botswana/Angola/Zimbabwe/Namibia, as perhaps as far as South Africa as Khoe-San DNA from South Africa and dating of archeological remains of cattle show.

    Since the South Erythreans mixed heavily with the Khoe-San HG populations of the southern Africa, all Khoe and San people - whether pastoralists or hunter-gatherers - have significant Erythrean ancestry and most groups carry E-M35 at significant frequencies, even the most isolated ones. Because of the ancient cross-continental migration of the South Erythreans, E-M239 is found in significant frequencies from the cape to central Ethiopia. It peaks in South Erythrean populations like the Iraqw and Burunge, along with Great Lakes pastoralist groups like the Tutsi, south Nilotes, the Khoe nomads and San HG groups of southern and southwest Africa. It is present in Bantu groups ranging from Mt. Kenya and the Great Lakes to Southwestern Africa, such as the Kikuyu, Luhya, Rangi, Zulu, Xhosa, Herero, and Ovambo, and many of these diverse Khoe-San, Bantu, and Nilotic groups still practice cultural artefacts and the cattle-herding lifestyle of their bygone South Erythrean ancestors.

    Concerning the deep history of E-V1515:

    Because E-V1515 is around 12-11,000 years old, and since this lineage is essentially almost wholly restricted to Eythreans and Erythrean admixed people, it is very likely E-V1515 was a signature lineage of the pre-proto-Erythrean hunter-gatherers of Red Sea Egypt and Sudan. It is likely your E-M35 ancestors never really left NE Africa until the Erythrean migration beginning 7-6,000 years ago into the Horn and likely as far southwards to the Zambezi.
    Last edited by VytautusofAukstaitija; 07-26-2019 at 12:46 AM.

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  11. #6
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    Vytautus, very interesting review. Let us recommend rwaka to test at FTDNA with BigY700
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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    Vytautus, very interesting review. Let us recommend rwaka to test at FTDNA with BigY700
    Thanks very much Vytautus for the detailed information. Yes I'm thinking about doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    E-M293 gets its fame as the diagnostic South Erythrean paternal lineage, and it was well known for this even before the PN/ELM 2019 paper. It is an E-M35 lineage, however it is E-Z827, a brotherly lineage to E-L539 (E-M78's predecessor). The last common ancestor for all E-M293 thus far lived around 4,500 years ago, just around the time (+/- a few hundred years) South Erythrean broke off from East Erythrean likely somewhere in the Horn, and specifically in the Somali lowlands where 5,000 year old Erythrean pastoralist cattle herding cultures existed, and who even depicted in ancient cave paintings cattle of the type ancestral to Tutsi and Great Lakes cattle. The Natufians were E-Z830, and are the earliest E-Z830 and E-Z827 recorded. The earliest E-M35 and E-L539 however, are the Ibermaursians of NW Africa, and the Natufians had ancestry from people similar to these earlier E-M35 Ibermaursians - not the other way around.

    The earliest known member of your lineage is in a 3,000 year old Pastoral Neolithic South Erythrean nomad (I8809), who was also mtdna M1a1 like yourself. Around half of the 22 PN/ELM South Erythrean ancients had or likely carried E-M293. The earliest (mentioned) was 1,000-1,500 years removed from the mrca. By 4,000 years ago, it's likely your South Erythrean ancestors had crossed past the Tana river and into the Rift from northern Kenya.

    Here's an overview of your lineage:

    E-M35>E-Z827>E-Z830>E-CTS10880 (E-V1515)>E-Y5861>E-CTS1177 (E-V1846)>E-Z1267>E-M293

    The closest lineages to E-M293 are other E-Z1267 lineages, with which E-M293 shares a 5,000 ybp mrca. E-V1515 - the E-M35 lineage most non-E-M78 Erythreans have and to which E-M293 belongs - despite it being an old lineage, was most likely a founding lineage of the pre-proto-Erythreans. Your closest relatives outside of other E-M293 and E-Z1267 carriers would be other E-V1515 men, who are present in high frequencies throughout the Horn and in every major Erythrean sub-group except the Beja. E-V151 has two major lineages: E-V1700 and E-V1486, the latter to which E-M293 belongs. The most ancestral and basal E-V1515 lineages are all clustered in northern Eritrea and Ethiopia amongst the Ethiosemitic Tigray and Amhara, Central Erythrean Agew and Ethiopian Jews, and the Nilo-Saharan Kunama and Nara - the latter 2 Nilo-Saharan groups being heavily admixed with the neighboring Ethiosemitic groups. The East Erythrean Afar and Ethiosemitic Amhara are rich in E-V6 - a E-V1515 lineage more distant to E-M293, being as it is a E-V1700 lineage along with E-V42. Another E-V1515 lineage, a brother lineage of E-M293 as they both are E-V1486 (the other major E-V1515 lineage) is E-V92, a lineage found almost solely in Habeshas, and same goes for aforementioned E-V42 (a E-V1700 lineage), which seems as of now wholly restricted to more northern parts of Ethiopia amongst Central Erythreans (Ethiopian Jews) and the Kunama and Nara, and Amhara, but at much higher frequencies than E-V92. E-V1785* (E-GG24), a basal E-V1515 lineage ancestral to E-V6, makes up more than a quarter amongst the Tigray, and the same situation exists for ancestal E-V1486* - the other major E-V1515 lineage and the one ancestral to E-M293. As such, the two major branches of E-V1515 have their basal lineages in high frequency amongst the Tigray and northern Ethiosemites and the Nilo-Saharan Kunama and Nara (who have heavy sex-biased admixture from the aforementioned groups). Outside of the Horn, only E-V6 (along with E-V32) is also found in NW Egyptians from Siwa and Baharia. The lineage is present in the Arabian peninsula due to both long-term Aksumite socio-political hegemony in the late centuries BC and early AD, and later medieval, early modern, and late modern Horn African mamluks and slave armies, and slave-administrators, many whom settled and intermarried with the local Arab populations they policed and governed under various Arabian dynasties and monarchies.

    Of the two major branchings of E-V1515, E-V1486 looks to be a major lineage of the South-East Erythrean population of Somali lowlands 5,000 years ago. It contains both E-M293 and E-V2881, the former most strongly associated with South Erythreans and found in the majority of South Erythrean males. E-V2881 is associated and found most significantly in East Erythreans in turn, especially in Oromos. While I have not seen any E-V2881 in the ancient samples or in modern populations south of Kenya, E-M293 has been recorded in Oromos, Wolaytas, and other East Erythrean and Erythrean and Omotic ethnic groups from southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya. It may be that E-M293 may have East Erythrean branch, and the South Erythreans a branch of E-V32 - especially as the earliest recorded E-V32 male was found amongst the South Erythreans, and a more basal E-V32 is found amongst Kenyan Nilotic and Bantu groups, and especially amongst the Bantu Luhya (although their E-Z813 is possibly of recent Boran Oromo origin). The same might be true for E-V2881. As such, it is likely that the E-V1515 lineages of the South Erythreans was not solely E-M293, and I'm sure at some point some Khoe, Xhosa, or Great Lakes pastoralist guy will get tested and show up with E-V2881 or some other E-V1486 or even E-V1700, just as we continue to find more E-M293 in Oromos and Wolaytas, and other East Erythrean, Omotic, and other Horn African groups.

    Your ancestors - the South Erythreans - were likely the first NE African nomads to penetrate successfully south of the northern Frontier-south Somalia tropical-riverine zone and into Southeast Africa, and from there further afield, and by 2,000 South Erythrean clans and subgroups probably went past the Zambezi river into Botswana/Angola/Zimbabwe/Namibia, as perhaps as far as South Africa as Khoe-San DNA from South Africa and dating of archeological remains of cattle show.

    Since the South Erythreans mixed heavily with the Khoe-San HG populations of the southern Africa, all Khoe and San people - whether pastoralists or hunter-gatherers - have significant Erythrean ancestry and most groups carry E-M35 at significant frequencies, even the most isolated ones. Because of the ancient cross-continental migration of the South Erythreans, E-M239 is found in significant frequencies from the cape to central Ethiopia. It peaks in South Erythrean populations like the Iraqw and Burunge, along with Great Lakes pastoralist groups like the Tutsi, south Nilotes, the Khoe nomads and San HG groups of southern and southwest Africa. It is present in Bantu groups ranging from Mt. Kenya and the Great Lakes to Southwestern Africa, such as the Kikuyu, Luhya, Rangi, Zulu, Xhosa, Herero, and Ovambo, and many of these diverse Khoe-San, Bantu, and Nilotic groups still practice cultural artefacts and the cattle-herding lifestyle of their bygone South Erythrean ancestors.

    Concerning the deep history of E-V1515:

    Because E-V1515 is around 12-11,000 years old, and since this lineage is essentially almost wholly restricted to Eythreans and Erythrean admixed people, it is very likely E-V1515 was a signature lineage of the pre-proto-Erythrean hunter-gatherers of Red Sea Egypt and Sudan. It is likely your E-M35 ancestors never really left NE Africa until the Erythrean migration beginning 7-6,000 years ago into the Horn and likely as far southwards to the Zambezi.
    Quite a huge impact on the continent. You mentioned E-V1515 being signature of Red Sea HGs. Any idea on how they transitioned from a HG society to a pastoral way of life? Was pastoralism introduced by diffusion or they themselves domesticated cattle( I’m biased on cattle)? We know that progenitor of Ankole long-horned cattle originated in the lower Nile, not so far from where E-V1515 is thought to have originated.

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  17. #9
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    Your BigY result will be very interesting for better understanding of ethnogenesis of our southern brothers of E-M293 branch!
    Good luck Rwaka brother!
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