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Thread: UP Syed Results

  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    It would have been lost over time,especially with maternal lineages.

    Another branch of the Qara Qoyunlu founded the Qutub Shahi dynasty in Golconda.


    My great grandmother's stepmother belonged to Gardezi Sadaat which was another Syed lineage which hailed from Gardez via Sabzewar. They reportedly fled Mashhad during the Mongol invasions and ended up in Delhi where Iltumish gave them land. One of the brothers married a daughter of Iltumish and settled in Mewat near Gurgaon in Haryana and another settled in Kara-Manikpur in Uttar Pradesh. The latter is where my great grandmother's stepmother hailed from ultimately.

    The Gardezis of Mewat served the Delhi Sultanate and Mughals, they joined the 1857 rebellion against Britain and were subequently punished when it failed.

    I had no idea that the Golconda sultans were also Qara Qoyunlu.


    A few other saadats also came during the reign of Sultan Iltumish like the Barha/Bilgrim. Iltumish himself was known to be a devout muslim (orthodox sunnis generally held a high regard for ahlul bayt like Imam Malik and Abu Hanifa themselves -Imam Shafi and Hanbal were even accused of being Shia) and we know from Ibn Battuta that the Sultans of Delhi were extremely lavish to foreign Ulama and Sayyids, so its seems like a good time to come to south asia.

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  3. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Sadaat-e-Amroha
    Sadaat-e-Bara
    Sadaat-e-Bilgram
    Sadaat-e-Gardezi

    These are the biggest and main ones politically then there are several smaller ones, almost one for every village/town. Including:
    Saadat e Samana
    Saadat e Nawazpura
    Saadat e Agra

    just to name a couple.

    This list can go on very long.

    Generally, in north India as a whole, actually. There aren't many Hassanis, after the early Alid revolts especially of Nafs az Zakiya, the Hassanis went generally to the "west" to africa and etc , and gave the Sennusi, Idrisi and etc. Hussainis generally migrated East especially with shia invitations. Most early Alids of both lines were generally Zaidi Shia in faith.

    Of the Hassanis most numerous are the Jilanis, especially prominent in Punjab, though west punjab has a higher reputation for fake sayyids than East Punjab. Having said that, thosesayyids and quraishis in and around Multan are generally of more solid pedigrees.

    Bukahris are quite prominent in Punjab but I've often seen fake Sayyids (Those who were lower caste before partition and then became sayyids after coming to pakistan) belong mostly to the Bukhari line (this is just my personal observation, they claim being Bukhari without any tree or paperwork to back it and as whole often they know that they aren't actually sayyids).

    Of the Hussainis.There are the Zaidis, Jafaris, Kazimis, Bukahris and Rizvis (I find musawis to be much less compared to others). Zaidis especially give many lines of descent in Bihar, having come quite early on. Bukharis are present in punjab from a very long time and didn't have much reason to migrate.

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  5. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by royaljoker View Post
    These are the biggest and main ones politically then there are several smaller ones, almost one for every village/town. Including:
    Saadat e Samana
    Saadat e Nawazpura
    Saadat e Agra

    just to name a couple.

    This list can go on very long.

    Generally, in north India as a whole, actually. There aren't many Hassanis, after the early Alid revolts especially of Nafs az Zakiya, the Hassanis went generally to the "west" to africa and etc , and gave the Sennusi, Idrisi and etc. Hussainis generally migrated East especially with shia invitations. Most early Alids of both lines were generally Zaidi Shia in faith.

    Of the Hassanis most numerous are the Jilanis, especially prominent in Punjab, though west punjab has a higher reputation for fake sayyids than East Punjab. Having said that, thosesayyids and quraishis in and around Multan are generally of more solid pedigrees.

    Bukahris are quite prominent in Punjab but I've often seen fake Sayyids (Those who were lower caste before partition and then became sayyids after coming to pakistan) belong mostly to the Bukhari line (this is just my personal observation, they claim being Bukhari without any tree or paperwork to back it and as whole often they know that they aren't actually sayyids).

    Of the Hussainis.There are the Zaidis, Jafaris, Kazimis, Bukahris and Rizvis (I find musawis to be much less compared to others). Zaidis especially give many lines of descent in Bihar, having come quite early on. Bukharis are present in punjab from a very long time and didn't have much reason to migrate.
    To add, my maternal grandfather was from Fatehpur and my maternal grandmother was from Barabanki. You'll see a briefer here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaqati_family for a Syed community near Barabanki.

    I think the vast majority of South Asians Shia Syeds that carry the 'right' Y-chromosome would fall under this cluster right here: syedsshia.PNG

    Here's some more Sadaat communities:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jais,_...Sadaat_of_Jais
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasira...t_of_Nasirabad

    With that said, it appears these articles are written by community members.

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  7. #384
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    Yes they probably fall under those branches. Iranian majority branches. I think the main bulk of the Shia Syed's originated from Iran that are in UP.
    Last edited by Biharguy; 12-01-2020 at 06:38 PM.

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  9. #385
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    In good news, it looks like the Gardezi Sadaat E-M34 Naqvi guy might be interested in the Big Y.

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  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by royaljoker View Post
    I had no idea that the Golconda sultans were also Qara Qoyunlu.


    A few other saadats also came during the reign of Sultan Iltumish like the Barha/Bilgrim. Iltumish himself was known to be a devout muslim (orthodox sunnis generally held a high regard for ahlul bayt like Imam Malik and Abu Hanifa themselves -Imam Shafi and Hanbal were even accused of being Shia) and we know from Ibn Battuta that the Sultans of Delhi were extremely lavish to foreign Ulama and Sayyids, so its seems like a good time to come to south asia.
    Vladimir Minorsky wrote about it decades ago:

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/609229?seq=1

    Makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by royaljoker View Post
    These are the biggest and main ones politically then there are several smaller ones, almost one for every village/town. Including:
    Saadat e Samana
    Saadat e Nawazpura
    Saadat e Agra

    just to name a couple.

    This list can go on very long.

    Generally, in north India as a whole, actually. There aren't many Hassanis, after the early Alid revolts especially of Nafs az Zakiya, the Hassanis went generally to the "west" to africa and etc , and gave the Sennusi, Idrisi and etc. Hussainis generally migrated East especially with shia invitations. Most early Alids of both lines were generally Zaidi Shia in faith.

    Of the Hassanis most numerous are the Jilanis, especially prominent in Punjab, though west punjab has a higher reputation for fake sayyids than East Punjab. Having said that, thosesayyids and quraishis in and around Multan are generally of more solid pedigrees.

    Bukahris are quite prominent in Punjab but I've often seen fake Sayyids (Those who were lower caste before partition and then became sayyids after coming to pakistan) belong mostly to the Bukhari line (this is just my personal observation, they claim being Bukhari without any tree or paperwork to back it and as whole often they know that they aren't actually sayyids).

    Of the Hussainis.There are the Zaidis, Jafaris, Kazimis, Bukahris and Rizvis (I find musawis to be much less compared to others). Zaidis especially give many lines of descent in Bihar, having come quite early on. Bukharis are present in punjab from a very long time and didn't have much reason to migrate.
    One of my ancestors was a Hussaini Syed from Azamgarh district in Uttar Pradesh, he was given a sunnud (gift grant) by the first Nawab of Awadh, Saadat Khan in gratitude for his role in keeping control of the Sheikhzadas in the area. It likely explains why that side of my family was so wealthy and were able to send their son to the UK to study law in 1910.

    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    To add, my maternal grandfather was from Fatehpur and my maternal grandmother was from Barabanki. You'll see a briefer here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaqati_family for a Syed community near Barabanki.

    I think the vast majority of South Asians Shia Syeds that carry the 'right' Y-chromosome would fall under this cluster right here: syedsshia.PNG

    Here's some more Sadaat communities:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jais,_...Sadaat_of_Jais
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasira...t_of_Nasirabad

    With that said, it appears these articles are written by community members.
    Ayatollah Khomeini's grandfather was born in Kintoor,Barabanki district.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 12-01-2020 at 07:17 PM.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post

    Ayatollah Khomeini's grandfather was born in Kintoor,Barabanki district.
    I'm curious if he would have shown up in my maternal grandma's DNA Relatives.

    I honestly lament that 23andMe didn't become popular a few years earlier. I really think it's important to test the elderly as they are a generation or two closer to any foreign admixture.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    I'm curious if he would have shown up in my maternal grandma's DNA Relatives.

    I honestly lament that 23andMe didn't become popular a few years earlier. I really think it's important to test the elderly as they are a generation or two closer to any foreign admixture.
    His family migrated to India in the 18th Century and then went back to Iran as British power grew in Awadh during the 19th Century.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    His family migrated to India in the 18th Century and then went back to Iran as British power grew in Awadh during the 19th Century.
    I'm curious what is South Asian autosomal % would be.

    If he lived in India for three generations and his family had returned for two, would imply that he would be a max of like ~17% South Asian. But I'm not sure if his grandfather migrated as a single man or if he had brought a spouse.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    I'm curious what is South Asian autosomal % would be.

    If he lived in India for three generations and his family had returned for two, would imply that he would be a max of like ~17% South Asian. But I'm not sure if his grandfather migrated as a single man or if he had brought a spouse.
    It is unlikely that Khomeini's family would take an autosomal DNA test.

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