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Thread: 27% R1a1 in 1000genomes Sri Lankan Tamils - Kerala origins?

  1. #1
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    27% R1a1 in 1000genomes Sri Lankan Tamils - Kerala origins?

    I am trying to work out why SL Tamils have over a quarter R1a1:

    sl tamil.png

    R1a1 is not high at all in most Tamil Nadu castes with the exception of Brahmin and Jains:

    annotation%2F8663819b-5ff0-4133-b70a-2d686dfb0a44.t002.cn.png

    It is at a similar frequency in the neighbouring Sinhalese:

    Sinhala y dna.png

    Historically there were large scale migrations from Kerala to Sri Lanka in the last 800 years (I have many distant Kerala relatives on gedmatch from 8 generations ago, mainly Nair which i suspect is due to the migration of soldiers).

    Could the R1a1 in SL Tamils be mainly from Kerala? Or from the Sinhalese via ancient North Indian migrations?

    The 15 SL Tamil R1a1 samples are on yfull:

    https://www.yfull.com/full-genomes/

    Is there a way to cross check them with Kerala R1a1 subclades to answer this question?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchid View Post
    I am trying to work out why SL Tamils have over a quarter R1a1:

    sl tamil.png

    R1a1 is not high at all in most Tamil Nadu castes with the exception of Brahmin and Jains:

    annotation%2F8663819b-5ff0-4133-b70a-2d686dfb0a44.t002.cn.png

    It is at a similar frequency in the neighbouring Sinhalese:

    Sinhala y dna.png

    Historically there were large scale migrations from Kerala to Sri Lanka in the last 800 years (I have many distant Kerala relatives on gedmatch from 8 generations ago, mainly Nair which i suspect is due to the migration of soldiers).

    Could the R1a1 in SL Tamils be mainly from Kerala? Or from the Sinhalese via ancient North Indian migrations?

    The 15 SL Tamil R1a1 samples are on yfull:

    https://www.yfull.com/full-genomes/

    Is there a way to cross check them with Kerala R1a1 subclades to answer this question?

    Thanks
    I'd link it to Bengal and Indo aryan language expansion. It seems to be really high in Brahmins and Warrior castes among sri lankan tamils. I'm not aware of caste system in Sri Lankan Tamil, but it looks like it is dominant haplo in Warrior and priests. Do we have the results of Sri lankan tamils? It's probably the least explored group of South Asia.
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I'd link it to Bengal and Indo aryan language expansion. I'm not aware of caste system in Sri Lankan Tamil, but it looks like it is dominant haplo in Warrior and priests.
    It likely originally came from warrior castes (either Kerala Nairs or Bengali Kshatriyas) who assimilated into the elite farming caste. But i'm not sure which one is the main source. If this R1a1 came from Bengal, why is the West Bengali associated R2 much lower in SL Tamils than Sinhalese?

    Most of the upper castes in Sri Lanka (both Tamil and Sinhala) are from farmer backgrounds (as in much of south india).

    These Tamils are almost certainly from the Jaffna Velallar caste who comprise over 50% of all Jaffna Tamils, and who are an even larger % in the diaspora.

    The dominance of farming castes in south india and SL is probably a remnant of the migrations south of elite farming communities from the Indus Valley Civilisation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchid View Post
    It likely originally came from warrior castes (either Kerala Nairs or Bengali Kshatriyas) who assimilated into the elite farming caste. But i'm not sure which one is the main source. If this R1a1 came from Bengal, why is the West Bengali associated R2 much lower in SL Tamils than Sinhalese?

    Most of the upper castes in Sri Lanka (both Tamil and Sinhala) are from farmer backgrounds (as in much of south india).

    These Tamils are almost certainly from the Jaffna Velallar caste who comprise over 50% of all Jaffna Tamils, and who are an even larger % in the diaspora.

    The dominance of farming castes in south india and SL is probably a remnant of the migrations south of elite farming communities from the Indus Valley Civilisation.
    R2 migration from Bengal high in Andhra Pradesh compared to Tamil Nadu due to Iron Age migrations via same route - Kalinga. Whereas Tamil Nadu is older migration of H1 & higher presence of C along with later migration of R1a from Maha .

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    R2 migration from Bengal high in Andhra Pradesh compared to Tamil Nadu due to Iron Age migrations via same route - Kalinga. Whereas Tamil Nadu is older migration of H1 & higher presence of C along with later migration of R1a from Maha .
    The problem is R1a1 is much smaller in Tamil Nadu compared to SL Tamils. Where did this R1a1 in SL Tamils mainly come from? It clearly could not have come from Tamil Nadu alone.

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    might be founder effect?

    BTW I saw some R1a of the Z2123/Z2124 lines from Sri Lanka, do you belong to those lines or L657?
    Tamil Brahmins apparently have more of the former than L657 which is more common overall in India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchid View Post
    The problem is R1a1 is much smaller in Tamil Nadu compared to SL Tamils. Where did this R1a1 in SL Tamils mainly come from? It clearly could not have come from Tamil Nadu alone.
    May be the SL tamils might have started with higher R1a1 & H1a1 similar to Kota tribal people.

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    Id like to see the harappa DNA results for these samples, It would be interesting perspective

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    Id like to see the harappa DNA results for these samples, It would be interesting perspective
    baaed on what i see here on this blog sri lankan vellalar samples are actually more SI shifted than Mainland Tamil ones
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...-has-resolved/

    I don't know how representative this sample is though

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    Quote Originally Posted by client View Post
    baaed on what i see here on this blog sri lankan vellalar samples are actually more SI shifted than Mainland Tamil ones
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...-has-resolved/

    I don't know how representative this sample is though
    Do you think Tamils from SL are more similar to new user kkaran? He is R1a as well.
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