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Thread: Major Jewish Y-lineages

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    This is https://yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13184/, I'm assuming. It's been found in Caucasian Jews?
    It almost certainly has, unless they belong to some other subclade of R-F1092: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  3. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Several Z18271 Pontians from Gümüşhane.I have ancestry from this region and my autosomal as you know is levantine shifted.(30%)I am wondering why we haven't any historical document to reveal Jewish migration to those regions of northeast anatolia.I only found this:


    I only found this article here:

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003521#h=5


    I have no idea how accruate it is.Its from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo.
    There is a lot more out there on early Black Sea Jewry, just don't limit your search to the immediate southern area, as the community was likely larger(i.e Jews in the Bosporan Kingdom). You really should be looking at all of Byzantine Jewry.
    Last edited by StillWater; 02-17-2020 at 11:16 PM.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  5. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    This is https://yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13184/, I'm assuming. It's been found in Caucasian Jews?
    Yes, it's found among many Caucasian Jews, though none have been SNP-confirmed due to lack of funding.
    Last edited by AbdoNumen; 02-17-2020 at 11:32 PM. Reason: typo
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  7. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Several Z18271 Pontians from Gümüşhane.I have ancestry from this region and my autosomal as you know is levantine shifted.(30%)I am wondering why we haven't any historical document to reveal Jewish migration to those regions of northeast anatolia.I only found this:


    I only found this article here:

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003521#h=5


    I have no idea how accruate it is.Its from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo.
    I was about to say the same thing as StillWater, namely that Byzantine Jewry is probably a more plausible source for these lineages. In fact, there seems to be a cluster under Z18271 that comprises seven Pontians (including two 3 from Gümüşhane) and a Romaniote Kohen as well as one Lithuanian Jew.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  9. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbdoNumen View Post
    Yes, it's found among many Caucasian Jews, though none have been SNP-confirmed due to lack of funding.
    There may be a link to the Khazars here, though not a point for Elhaik Rabbeinu. The MRCA goes back to the time of the alleged Khazar conversion. These may be Byzantine and/or Persian Jews who fled persecution and settled in Khazaria, as has been recorded. I'm curious if other lineages with Pontic Greeks and Jews (Ashkenazim, Mizrachim) will have similar MRCA dates. Persecution could explain the departure of one Jew and a conversion of another.
    Last edited by StillWater; 02-17-2020 at 11:47 PM.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  11. #276
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    The presence of these Pontians under subclades that until now were entirely Ashkenazi is somewhat problematic. My own branch (ZS2434) has one such individual, at the same time there are several individuals from Germany while the bulk is made up of Litvaks. This complicates things because while we could assume a migration from the Rhineland or Bavaria, it does nothing to explain the Pontian individual's presence.

    This leads me to suspect that several of the subclades common to Pontians and Ashkenazim will see their TMRCA estimates pushed back in time while they are further subdivided. It's either that or such branches were present in Eastern Europe before the arrival of Ashkenazic Jewry and arrived from somewhere else (and their presence in Germany reflects Jewish migration from Eastern Europe to Germany).
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  13. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    The presence of these Pontians under subclades that until now were entirely Ashkenazi is somewhat problematic. My own branch (ZS2434) has one such individual, at the same time there are several individuals from Germany while the bulk is made up of Litvaks. This complicates things because while we could assume a migration from the Rhineland or Bavaria, it does nothing to explain the Pontian individual's presence.

    This leads me to suspect that several of the subclades common to Pontians and Ashkenazim will see their TMRCA estimates pushed back in time while they are further subdivided. It's either that or such branches were present in Eastern Europe before the arrival of Ashkenazic Jewry and arrived from somewhere else (and their presence in Germany reflects Jewish migration from Eastern Europe to Germany).


    Agamemnon have you note any other simmilar Jewish lineage among Pontic Greeks?We have some E1b1 but i am not sure,if i am not mistaken most of them are EV13.

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  15. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Agamemnon have you note any other simmilar Jewish lineage among Pontic Greeks?We have some E1b1 but i am not sure,if i am not mistaken most of them are EV13.
    By the current pattern, I put some chips on R-Y2632.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  17. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    By the current pattern, I put some chips on R-Y2632.
    R-Y2632 is a really interesting one. Looks like it has a heavily eastern-skewed distribution among Ashkenazim, too. Pity none of them are up on YFull. The Ashkenazi presence in the branch looks structurally complicated.
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  19. #280
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    Hello, I'm a Tunisian Jew who recently did 23andme and wanted to know if you guys have any information on my paternal haplogroup- G-PF3345

    Sorry if this isn't an appropriate question for this thread.
    Last edited by bjfs; 02-18-2020 at 11:47 PM.

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