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Thread: Major Jewish Y-lineages

  1. #1
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    Major Jewish Y-lineages

    I agree with the concern in the Big Thread that we've spent too much time interpreting autosomal DNA-based models, and not enough making judgments based on clear phylogeny (which has gotten much more precise over the last few years). Drawing on a number of sources (JewishDNA.net, YTree, FTDNA's Haplotree, and FTDNA projects), I decided to put together brief, "just the facts" summaries on each of the 10 apparently largest Ashkenazi lineages, all with YFull-estimated TMRCAs between 400 CE and 900 CE. By Wim Penninx's original estimate from a few years ago, these make up about 55% of all Ashkenazi patrilineages.

    For the most part I'll leave out my interpretations; I'm interested in yours (and in any blanks you'd be able to fill in). Suffice it to say, some branches have interesting internal structure and some don't; some have a clear link to non-Ashkenazi Jews, and some don't; some have a sibling branch within the historical timescale, and some don't; some appear Levantine, some European, and some unclear in origin.

    Might be best to break this up, and post one by one, in descending order of size. Starting with a notorious one:

    R1a-Z93-Y2619

    Frequency (Penninx): 8.6%
    TMRCA (YFull): 700 CE
    TMRCA (Behar 2017): 250 CE

    Main branches:
    R-BY29826 (TMRCA: Not reported)
    R-FGC18222 (TMRCA: 850 CE)
    - Includes Iraqi Jew (in a downstream clade with Belarusian and Polish Jews with TMRCA: 1725 CE) and Algerian Jew (also in downstream clade)
    R-Y2630 (Main branch; TMRCA: 950 CE)
    - Includes Turkish Jews (in multiple downstream clades)

    Parent branch:
    R-CTS6 (TMRCA: 900 BCE)
    - Basal individual: Persian from Kerman
    - Haplotree identifies possible basal Egyptian, Colombian
    - Found in a Scythian from ca. 1050 CE
    Sibling branches:
    R-Y37891 (TMRCA: 650 CE)
    - Includes Persian from Kerman, Iranian Azerbaijani, Iraqi Yazidi
    R-CTS7297 (TMRCA: 900 BCE)
    - Includes Armenian, Iranian Azerbaijani, Brazilian, and Spaniards

    Grandparent branch:
    R-F1345 (TMRCA: 1900 BCE)
    Uncle branches:
    R-YP5484 (TMRCA: 1050 CE)
    - Includes Galilee Palestinians (Mamluk tradition?)
    R-F2935 (TMRCA: 1700 BCE)
    - Includes Black Sea Turk, Balkars, Englishman, Scot, Spaniard, and Ukrainian
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 07-29-2019 at 05:25 PM.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  3. #2
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    Next:

    J2a-M92-L556

    Frequency (Penninx): 7.6%
    TMRCA (YFull): 850 CE

    Main branches:
    J-Y9005 (TMRCA: 1250 CE)
    - Includes early-diverging downstream subclade with Venetian and Bulgarian from Ruse. Jewish or not?
    J-Y11782 (TMRCA: 1050 CE)
    - Splits into Y22280 (TMRCA: 1150 CE) and Y13373 (TMRCA: 1500 CE); former has no German Jews and a Puerto Rican in a downstream branch, but latter has plenty of German Jews

    Note:
    Haplotree identifies possible basal Italians, Honduran, Mexican, Chilean, Pakistani.

    Parent branch:
    J-Y20051 (TMRCA: 4200 BCE)
    Sibling branch:
    J-S19243 (TMRCA: 1250 CE)
    - All Saudis

    Grandparent branch:
    J-Y20492 (TMRCA: 4200 BCE)
    - Basal individual: Sardinian
    Uncle branch:
    J-ZS6172 (TMRCA: 900 BCE)
    - Western Turk, Armenian, Calabrian
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 07-29-2019 at 05:14 PM.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  5. #3
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    Next, for a very interesting one, still poorly-characterized:

    G2b-M377-Y12975

    Frequency (Penninx): 7.6%
    TMRCA (YFull): 900 CE

    Main branches:
    G-Y14600 (TMRCA: 950 CE)
    G-Y15861 (TMRCA: 1050 CE)

    Parent branch:
    G-Y12297 (TMRCA: 2700 BCE)
    Sibling branch:
    G-M3124 (TMRCA: 1250 CE)
    - Sicilian, Afghan Pashtuns, Punjabi

    Grandparent branch:
    G-M377 (TMRCA: 6500 BCE)
    - Lebanese, Syrians, Armenians, Tajiks, Neapolitan, Sicilian
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 07-29-2019 at 05:14 PM.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  7. #4
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    Including a downstream pan-North Mediterranean branch not reported in YFull:

    Q1b-L245-Y2200

    Frequency (Penninx): 6.4%
    TMRCA (YFull): 450 CE

    Main branches:
    Q-YP1003 (TMRCA: 600 CE)
    - According to Gurianov 2015, includes Chinese individual
    Q-Y2197 (TMRCA: 700 CE)

    Notes:
    - Structure reported differently in YTree vs. Haplotree vs. GeneticHomeland.
    - YFull identifies basal Scot; Haplotree additionally identifies basal Dane and Englishman.
    - Haplotree identifies a Brazilian, Italian, Greek, and Portuguese under Q-BZ72, a sibling to Q-Y2197, under Q-FGC1933, which is the actual sibling to Q-YP1003.

    Parent branch:
    Q-Y2225 (TMRCA: 500 BCE)
    Sibling branch:
    Q-FGC10659 (TMRCA: 1875 CE)
    - Italians

    Grandparent branch:
    Q-Y2209 (TMRCA: 1400 BCE)
    - Basal individual: Jordanian, Haplotree adds Lebanese, Omani, German (Jew?)
    Uncle branches:
    Q-FGC2020
    - Turk (or Armenian from Turkey?)
    Q-BZ1
    - Includes Italian
    Q-BZ3000 (TMRCA: 750 CE)
    - Includes Montenegrin, Croat
    Q-YP730 (TMRCA: 900 BCE)
    - Includes Chinese, Dutch, German
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 07-29-2019 at 05:15 PM.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  9. #5
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    Near and dear to my heart:

    E1b-L791-Y6923

    Frequency (Penninx): 5.6%
    TMRCA (YFull): 400 CE, main branch: 700 CE

    Main branches:
    E-Y102667 (TMRCA: 400 CE)
    - Splits into Y102667* (Libyan Jew) and Y99093 (TMRCA: 650 CE, Turkish-Tunisian Jew and Puerto Rican)
    - Most likely (Y6923 xY6938) includes Algerian (Jew?), Mexican, Peruvian
    - Might include Ashkenazi (Behar et al 2017)
    E-Y6938 (TMRCA: 700 CE)
    - Primary split between Y133118 (TMRCA: 950 CE) and main clade Z36123 (TMRCA: 750 CE)
    - Found in downstream clades: Swedes, a Scot, a Polish Tatar (?)

    Parent branch:
    E-Y6926 (TMRCA: ~1550 BCE)
    Sibling branch:
    E-Y6926*
    - Includes Omanis and Emiratis from Al-Bulushi clan

    Grandparent branch:
    E-Y4971 (TMRCA: 3500 BCE)
    - Haplotree identifies possible basal Emirati, Polish (Jew?), Russian (Jew?)
    Uncle branches:
    E-BY36592 (TMRCA: Not reported)
    - Not well-characterized, Iraqi(s)
    E-Y4972 (TMRCA: 3000 BCE)
    - Swiss German, Romaniote Jews, Sardinian, Armenian, Russian, Ligurians, French, Nablus-area Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Emiratis, German (Jews?), Iraqi, Portuguese, Spaniard, Venezuelan

    Note:
    Possibly identified in a Bulgarian (FTDNA), and in now-inaccessible databases, a Brazilian and Tunisian (Jew?).
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 07-29-2019 at 05:15 PM.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  11. #6
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    Shoutout to the priests:

    J1-ZS227-Y5400 (S12192)

    Frequency (Penninx): 5%
    TMRCA (YFull): 400 CE

    Main branches:
    J-Y31161 (TMRCA: 400 CE)
    J-Y5399 (TMRCA: 950 CE)

    Notes:
    - Nomenclature different in YTree vs. Haplotree.
    - Haplotree identifies possible basal Moroccan (Jew?), Algerian (Jew?), Ashkenazim. Includes Norwegian and Irish in downstream branches.

    Parent branch:
    J-Y3088 (Y18271) (TMRCA: 900 BCE)
    - Includes Turkish (Jew?), Englishman, Sardinian, Peruvian, Greeks (Jewish?), Yemenite Jew, Salvadoran, Lebanese, Mexican, and Puerto Rican.
    Sibling branches:
    J-ZS2432 (TMRCA: 750 CE)
    - Ashkenazim
    J-ZS2458 (TMRCA: 800 BCE)
    - Iraqi (Jew?)
    J-FGC17491 (TMRCA: 250 CE)
    - Includes Portuguese, Spaniards, Moroccan Jew, Mexican, Ashkenazim
    J-ZS237 (TMRCA: Not reported)
    - Italians

    Grandparent branch:
    J-S0075 (ZS227) (TMRCA: 3400 BCE)
    - Haplotree identifies possible basal Iraqi (Jew?), Kuwaiti, French (Jew?), Ashkenazim; Portuguese at ZS222 (between ZS227 and Y18271). YFull identifies basal Rhineland German (Jew?).
    - JewishDNA.net claims (based on STR?) Jews from Turkey, Italy, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  13. #7
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    J2a-L210-Y15223 (Z30390)

    Frequency (Penninx): 4%
    TMRCA (YFull): 550 CE

    Main branches:
    J-BY194993 (TMRCA: 1250 CE)
    J-Y15238 (TMRCA: 1100 CE)
    - Includes several German Jews on YFull (3 Bavarian, 1 Rhineland)
    J-Y24492 (TMRCA: 550 CE)
    - Doesn’t include any German Jews on YFull

    Notes:
    - Nomenclature different in YTree vs. Haplotree.
    - Haplotree identifies possible basal Mexican, Ashkenazim.

    Parent branch:
    J-Y15222 (TMRCA: 600 BCE)
    - Includes basal Lombard, Basilicatan. Haplotree reports possible basal Frenchman and Irishman. No downstream subclades reported (other than Y15223).

    Grandparent branch:
    J-Z482 (TMRCA: 2900 BCE)
    - Includes basal Ukrainian (Jew?); Haplotree reports possible basal Ashkenazim (or Eastern Europeans), Italians, Danes, Spaniard, Scot.
    Uncle branch:
    - J-Z478 (TMRCA: Not reported)
    - Tuscans
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  15. #8
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    I like this one because it strongly hints at intra-Ashkenazi structure:

    E1b-M84-Y14891

    Frequency (Penninx): 4%
    TMRCA (YFull): 800 CE

    Main branches:
    E-Z36149 (TMRCA: 1250 CE)
    - Includes several German Jews (Bavarian, Rhineland, Baden-Wurttemberg), Alsatian Jews, Dutch Jew
    E-Y16781 (TMRCA: 800 CE)
    - Larger branch; includes much smaller proportion of German Jews, plus Venetian Jew Bassan downstream (Ashkenazi origin likely)

    Parent branch:
    E-Y14899 (TMRCA: 5500 BCE)
    - Appears to include Syrian Jew, somewhere in structure
    Sibling branches:
    E-F1539 (TMRCA: 300 CE)
    - Includes Kuwaiti, Emirati
    E-Y14899* (BY63615?)
    - Includes Palestinian Christian from Birzeit, Greek Cypriot with possible Pontic origin

    Grandparent branch:
    E-FGC18353 (TMRCA: 5500 BCE)
    Uncle branch:
    E-Y5435 (TMRCA: 4000 BCE)
    - Includes Yemenis, Saudis, Qataris, Emirati, Iranian Kurd, Sardinians, Algerian, Bulgarian, Lebanese, Bahraini, Palestinian, Swede, Swiss, Turk, Iraqi, English, Italian, Austrian, Polish, Hungarian.
    - Includes diverse, heavily but not exclusively European branch E-FGC18401 downstream, (TMRCA: 1100 BCE).
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  17. #9
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    J1-L817-L816

    Frequency (Penninx): 3.3%
    TMRCA (YFull): 850 CE

    Main branches:
    J-Y34527 (TMRCA: 1350 CE)
    - Includes Mexicans from Nuevo Leůn, Spaniard, German Jew
    J-ZS2728 (TMRCA: 900 CE)
    - Much larger branch; includes basal Spaniard, downstream Finn

    Note:
    Haplotree includes possible basal Greek (Jew?), Syrian (Jew?), Ashkenazim.

    Parent branch:
    J-L818 (TMRCA: 1900 BCE)
    According to Haplotree, includes possible basal Turks (Kurds?), Italian, Syrian, Saudi, German (Jew?).

    Grandparent branch:
    J-L817 (TMRCA: 4600 BCE)
    - YTree includes basal Sardinian
    Uncle branch:
    J-ZS5383 (TMRCA: Not reported)
    - Missing from YTree
    - Includes Yemenis, Saudis, Palestinian, Iraqi
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  19. #10
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    R1b-U106-Y5051

    Frequency (Penninx): 2.9%
    TMRCA (YFull): 500 CE

    Main branches:
    R-Y5051*
    - Includes Portuguese, Mexican, Brazilian, Spaniard
    R-FGC8591 (TMRCA: 850 CE)
    - Downstream of R-FGC8564 (TMRCA: 500 CE)
    R-A689 (TMRCA: 1200 CE)
    - Downstream of R-FGC8564 (TMRCA: 500 CE)
    - Includes Turkish Jew

    Note:
    Nomenclature different in YTree vs. Haplotree.

    Parent branch:
    R-Y3464 (FGC8587) (TMRCA: 500 CE)
    - Includes basal Englishman; according to Haplotree, includes additional possible basal Englishman, Swede.

    Grandparent branch:
    R-Y3462 (TMRCA: 100 CE)
    Sibling branch:
    R-Y101927 (TMRCA: 1200 CE)
    - Includes Englishmen, might also include German
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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