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Thread: The territories of the Somali clans, and their historic migrations and wanderings.

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    .....nvm.
    Last edited by NetNomad; 10-29-2019 at 07:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Bah Gob live as a minority with my Baha Cumar clan in Arabsiyo.My maternal grandmother's mom was Bah Gob and I have another great great grandmother who was Bah Gob.

    You should take the Y-DNA test but I have no doubt you will be E-V32 like the rest of us Habar Awal as those sites can be inaccurate


    Got my 23andme results :

    Y-DNA : T-L208
    mtdna : R0a2

    Surprised at morleydna's accuracy

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielZelalem View Post
    Got my 23andme results :

    Y-DNA : T-L208
    mtdna : R0a2

    Surprised at morleydna's accuracy
    It's good to hear you got your results! Bah Gob must be an assimilated sub-clan in the Hussein Abokor tribe.Considering your clan lives in Gabiley with us, they could be just a branch of the T-L208+ Tol Jeclos who live and intermarry with us Jibriil Abokor in Gabiley region or an assimilated Dir subclan.This result means a lot to me since the village my clan comes from (Arabsiyo) is shared with your clan and I have many ancestors who were Bah Gob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielZelalem View Post
    Got my 23andme results :

    Y-DNA : T-L208
    mtdna : R0a2

    Surprised at morleydna's accuracy

    What were your autosomal results and neanderthal variants if you don't mind me asking.

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    94% somali, 5.9 Ethiopian and Eritrean. .1% broadly SSA.
    120 variants

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    I wonder is R0a subclades are common in the Horn. I know this Rwandan Tutsi with R0a1a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espoir View Post
    I wonder is R0a subclades are common in the Horn. I know this Rwandan Tutsi with R0a1a.
    Its quite common in the Horn of Africa, maybe more prevalent in the Ethiopian Highlands. Most Horners belonging to R0a are actually R0a2, and the specific R0a2b and R0a2g are the ones that probably make up most of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    Not at all - if by Ethiopian you mean Ethiosemites/Habesha, there is no such similarity; they are very dissimilar anyway you look at it. Are Germans and Kazakhs similar? They must be by whatever standard you're qualifying that statement with.
    That's hyperbolic nonsense. One group is Turkic speaking and from Central Asia and the other is Indo-European speaking and from North-Central Europe. Their cultures and ancestral origins are somewhat connected through the long history of the steppes but how is that comparable to Somalis and Habeshas who are both Afro-Asiatic speaking groups who live in the same overall region? And to top that off the Ethiosemitic languages of Habeshas have Cushitic substrates and, as you know, Somali is Cushitic. This is more comparable to the difference between MENA Fellaḥin and Bedouins or the difference between an Arabized settled farmer and a Berber nomad and vice versa in the Maghreb.

    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    Subsistence-wise, Ethiosemites/Habeshas are intensive farmers with a few Highland agropastoralists who engage more heavily herding sheep and goat and cattle, more similar to migration period continental Germanics - with an exception for the Tigre. Somalis? the complete opposite - a purebred wholly nomadic folk. Their existence relies solely on herding camels. Farming was historically near non-existent, and a pastoral-heavy camel agropastoralism is only notable in assimilated Rahanweyn groups and in Somalis near Mount Karamada and the western reaches of the Ahmar mountains.
    You almost make it sound like our ancestors adopted this distinct subsistence style just for the sake of being different. They were mainly nomadic pastoralists out of necessity. I don't know if you've ever seen regions like Bari, Sanaag and Mudug but without modern technology and know-how they're not exactly super inviting for much of anything other than nomadic pastoralism but even in such regions you could find as much as 30% of the population subsisting by other means:

    Of a total population of 82,653 for the Mijertein region, 59,554 are pastoralist, 5,297 agriculturalist-pastoralist, 920 sedentary
    cultivators, 9,692 fishermen and sailors, and 3,097 merchants
    . - Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho


    Mostly pastoral nomads out of necessity but always seizing the chance to settle on the coast and fish and trade or practice agro-pastoralism and sedentary farming where possible. And, of course, the prevalence of agro-pastoralism and sedentary farming generally increased in areas with more arable land like the riverine south and parts of the northwest toward the Highlands where you see people who either speak Coastal-Northern Somali dialects or closely related Somali languages (Maay, Tunni, Jidu etc) who take up sedentary farming and, from what I've noticed, social dynamics not too dissimilar at times from those in the highlands where these people tend to start caring more about local family kinship ties, where they're from and so on rather than caring as much about the intricacies of clan lineages.

    And it's good you mentioned the Tigre because they're essentially just another link in the long observed chain that is "Coastal-Cushites", as in predominantly lowland dwelling Cushitic speaking peoples who mainly subsist on pastoralism out of obvious necessity but also take up coastal settling, agro-pastoralism and settled farming where it seems worth it to do so from Southeastern Egypt down to the Somali coast. Tigres are just an Ethiosemitized break in that chain. These peoples differ from their Highland Ethiopian neighbors in terms of subsistence out of obvious necessity and the social dynamics often found among them like tribalism, a more unruly streak and greater social mobility outside of exceptions like the pseudo caste system in the Horn is just something you typically tend to see when you're looking at nomadic pastoralists Vs. sedentary farmers:

     
    The Somali and Afar, and the Afar and Saho have traditions of common origin in the north-west corner of the Horn of Africa. All three peoples exhibit what
    is basically a common culture, the material culture being almost uniform, with differences among the Saho to be attributed to Ethiopian influence. Variations in
    ecology are also partly responsible for slight differences. Nomadism is the basic economy with the camel as burden animal, though among the Saho and in some parts
    of southern Somalia, camels are few and oxen replace them as beasts of burden. Cultivation is practised by some of the Saho, by very few Afar, but extensively in southern
    Somalia. - Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho


    If most of the Somali territories were as suitable for cultivation as the Ethiopian Highlands there wouldn't be much of a subsistence difference between Somalis and Habeshas and most likely not nearly as much of a difference in social dynamics where you're obviously right that there is often a very marked split in terms of both, so much so that even medieval and classical people noticed the overall cultural differences when they separated the coastal "Berber" people from the northern highlander "Abyssinian" people in their accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    Subsistence-wise, Ethiosemites/Habeshas are intensive farmers with a few Highland agropastoralists who engage more heavily herding sheep and goat and cattle, more similar to migration period continental Germanics - with an exception for the Tigre. Somalis? the complete opposite - a purebred wholly nomadic folk. Their existence relies solely on herding camels.
    ...

    Somalis are by far mostly a lowland people who lifestyles are the complete opposite of that of the Ethiosemites/Habesha - they were almost all complete nomads who rely solely on their camel herds to survive, living in mobile tents and traversing 100's of miles of wide open plains and savannah. Their kingdoms and states were ruled by leaders who were merely first amongst equals, something that is not really seen Ethiopian/Habesha sociopolitics.
    In a later part of your post you show that you seem to know Somalis herd goats and sheep so I don't know why you keep exaggerating like this to help your arguments or if you're really not all that knowledgeable about Somali subsistence, livestock and demographics. Somalis herd and herded plenty of animals other than camels. Namely horses, cattle, goats, sheep and donkeys. Camels are indeed the most revered, horses perhaps being an exception to this rule among warriors, with the order of importance after camels more or less being equivalent to the order I named those animals in prior but camels definitely were not the only animal herded or relied on, not by a long-shot. Depending on the region they could even be usurped as pack animals by cattle and most clans even in the north tended to have more sheep and goats than camels since they were historically more crucial to many Somalis for meat:

    Among meats, mutton is the favorite and dominates the use of all others; goat meat is the second most popular, with beef somewhere in the middle and camel meat being the least favorite. This order does not correlate to any perceived qualities of the meat but is mostly about availability. - Culture and Customs of Somalia, by Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi

    Sheep and goats are second to camels and cattle in the internal economy of the country, providing milk, ghee, and meat, of which, in the north at least, they are the main source.- Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho

     




    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    Somalis in comparison lived in a all-is-equal society, where everyone herded camels in addition to some goats and sheep, and moved across huge swaths of open land in unending migrations.
    "In addition to some goats and sheep" indeed. Not to mention the fact that, our ancestors, once you go back far enough, would have been principally cattle, goat and sheep pastoralists much like the Pastoral Neolithic folk. Camels and horses are later introductions from the Middle East. The word for camel, Geel, even seems to have an Old-South-Arabian root.

    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    And finally, concerning social intercourse, Somalis are extremely egalitarian, and a social hierarchy of any sorts simply does not exist (outside the Madhibaan) and power is gained through admiration and respect. Ethiosemites/Habeshas on the other hand are much more similar to the Japanese and Sino-sphere, placing a huge empahsis on rank and heirarchy and respect for superiors. Social mobility is a free for all within Somalis, whereas it is much more traditionally rigid and filled with regulatory items within Habesha societies. Only similarity? having outcaste groups, usually associated with blacksmithing and other handicraft, and hunting, and this is not feature that necessarily shows any recent connection with Ethiosemites/Habeshas, as this custom is also found in Tuareg, Masai, Oromo and even Arabs to a degree.
    Maasais are a Cushite admixed population who likely got that from from their Cushitic speaking ancestors and the way that system appears among Arabs and Tuaregs isn't exactly like how it is in the Horn. I think you are being a little disingenuous here. Ethiosemitic speakers are largely derived from local Cushitic speakers. Seemingly upwards of 70% of their ancestry is of either Central, North or Highland-East Cushitic speaking origins and they likely would have inherited that custom from these groups who show it just like Somalis. It is a common Horn custom, found even among Omotic speakers, to maritally and socially ostracize blacksmiths, leather-workers, hunters and whatnot hence the Somali groups the Midgaan, Tumaal and Yibir who are not too dissimilar in how they were treated historically from many of the Beta-Israel. Let's not try to act like this is some coincidental similarity.

    I also find it odd that you were once highlighting the dressing style of Somalis from about a century ago and didn't take the time to notice how similar it was to the style of dress often found all over the Highlands:

     

    Somalia 1889, Merka Market


    People at the Court of King Sahle Selassie in Shewa 1847

    A wider collection of past Somalis and Habeshas with some Bejas on top


    ^ No Arabs, Maasais and Tuaregs or even Rendille dressing like that. And this overall similarity in material culture wasn't something that was lost to people visiting or studying the region either. Then there's shared cuisines like Canjeero/Injera/Laxoox which was historically a common staple among various groups in the Horn or even random shared customs like this. Let's not pretend there aren't numerous shared cultural traits here that are either anciently shared or developed while Horners were interacting with each other constantly over the last several hundreds to thousands of years.

    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    It's very evident when their biggest ydna is J1-P56 and A3b2-M118, with the rest being a mix bag of all sorts of E-M35, such as E-M34 and basal E-M215 (E-M281), E-V38, J2 and traces of B and E2.
    Somali Y-DNA is pretty skewed by what look to be founder-effects that are common among patriarchal pastoral nomads like us. Pretty sure our ancient predecessors had plenty of lineages like A-M13, E-V6, E-V22, E-M293 and what not like other Cushites but one look at Habesha mtDNA vs. Somali mtDNA or Somali mtDNA vs. general Highlander mtDNA and you notice that while there are clear differences there are a whole lot of clearly shared lineages and it's not like E-V32 and T-M70 subclades aren't common in the Highlands. Our own Habesha member, Lank, belongs to a V32 subclade. But hey, man... not gonna deny that many of our subclades within many of these shared lineages are probably pretty well separated or that Somalis have very little J1 (and no J2) in comparison to Habeshas and far lower amounts of the South-Arabian admixture in the Horn which makes sense since we live on the eastern end of the Horn and aren't Ethiosemitized in the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    We can even go into difference in looks, as it's quite clear that Somalis are much more similar phenotypically and culturally to the Rendille, Masais, Arsi Oromos, and maybe even the Toubou and Congolese Banyamulenge (Banyamulenge I've seen online) than your average Amhara, Tigray, or Gurage. Do not act ignorant of what was the ~4,000+ years of heavy admixture from a variety of populations into the Habesha, and the accompanying mass cultural and ethno-lingustic shifts and adaptations that are not found in Somalis at all, that have made Somalis and Ethiosemites/Habeshas very diverged phenotypically.
    Utter nonsense. The Toubou comparison makes about as much sense as comparing us to Fulanis and I could hear you regarding some of the Rendille as it can make genetic sense depending on the samples you're looking at but groups like the Maasai? My friend, the Maasai are often half as much MENA as Somalis. As in a basal admixture difference as high as 25% when the difference between Somalis and Habeshas in this respect is normally like 10-15% or so:

     


    Somalis are far closer to Habeshas by every genetic metric out there than to them and every group you have mentioned with the exception of Rendilles and probably also Arsi Oromos. Not to mention that these groups south of the Horn tend to carry a lot of ancestry completely foreign to Horners who seem to all be basally made up of the same stuff, albeit at noticeably varying levels:

     




    And this genetic difference frankly shows in their looks, hence why many of the Somalis in this thread reacted the way they did to your phenotypic assessment. Personally, all I'll say is that even though recent formal stats and G25 results show Somalis have Mota-related ancestry and even some South-Arabian ancestry like Habeshas (though far less overall), anyone can see an overall difference in looks between our two groups yet there is a fair amount of overall similarity and overlap which makes sense with the genetics and I'll leave it at that and not really go deep into the phenotype rabbit hole with you as its all subjective and will go nowhere.

    As for culturally... what are you on about? Somalis are, culturally speaking, just an extension of the Cushitic speaking peoples of the Horn itself whether that be fellow Coastal-Cushites or groups further to the interior like Oromos and Sidamics with some obvious influences from Arabia and the greater Indian Ocean region. Full stop. We don't have any of the obvious Nilotic influences in groups like the Maasai and Rendile, for example. Even when you compare Somalis who live right next to them to these groups. Not gonna deny there are many obvious similarities and shared roots like the obvious linguistic closeness to the Rendile but you don't even need to be a scholar or read a book for this... Simply look at them and look at those images I shared of Early-Modern Somalis earlier. Maasais don't even use the typical Cushitic nomad mat-tent, for god's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    Relative to Africa-Middle East as a whole, how do Somalis and Habeshas seem similar from any major vantage point? even with the entirety of Africa considered, that stands as a very odd statement.
    The split between easterly lowlanders and westerly highlandlyers in the Horn is one of the deepest in the region and tends to correlate with a lot of differences in terms of subsistence, customs, religion and even linguistics and this is pretty uncontroversial and well-known even in the region itself but there's no need to exaggerate and warp reality to put this point across as you did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    We can even go into difference in looks, as it's quite clear that Somalis are much more similar phenotypically and culturally to the Rendille, Masais, Arsi Oromos, and maybe even the Toubou and Congolese Banyamulenge (Banyamulenge I've seen online) than your average Amhara, Tigray, or Gurage. Do not act ignorant of what was the ~4,000+ years of heavy admixture from a variety of populations into the Habesha, and the accompanying mass cultural and ethno-lingustic shifts and adaptations that are not found in Somalis at all, that have made Somalis and Ethiosemites/Habeshas very diverged phenotypically.

    Utter nonsense. The Toubou comparison makes about as much sense as comparing us to Fulanis and I could hear you regarding some of the Rendille as it can make genetic sense depending on the samples you're looking at but groups like the Maasai? My friend, the Maasai are often half as much MENA as Somalis. As in a basal admixture difference as high as 25% when the difference between Somalis and Habeshas in this respect is normally like 10-15% or so:
    Yeah dude is tripping. Its funny to me, people with little to no interaction or experience with Maasai tend to reference them the most...the Maasai on Google Images aren't really all that indicative of Maasai, I knew more David Rudisha type Maasai than quasi-Cushitic ones...folks in Nakuru would have a good laugh. I don't like phenotypic stuff cuz it can get creepy with the quickness [and ultimately who cares?] but I can't believe dude is trynna make such heavy distinctions between Horners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    That's hyperbolic nonsense. One group is Turkic speaking and from Central Asia and the other is Indo-European speaking and from North-Central Europe. Their cultures and ancestral origins are somewhat connected through the long history of the steppes but how is that comparable to Somalis and Habeshas who are both Afro-Asiatic speaking groups who live in the same overall region? And to top that off the Ethiosemitic languages of Habeshas have Cushitic substrates and, as you know, Somali is Cushitic. This is more comparable to the difference between MENA Fellaḥin and Bedouins or the difference between an Arabized settled farmer and a Berber nomad and vice versa in the Maghreb.



    You almost make it sound like our ancestors adopted this distinct subsistence style just for the sake of being different. They were mainly nomadic pastoralists out of necessity. I don't know if you've ever seen regions like Bari, Sanaag and Mudug but without modern technology and know-how they're not exactly super inviting for much of anything other than nomadic pastoralism but even in such regions you could find as much as 30% of the population subsisting by other means:

    Of a total population of 82,653 for the Mijertein region, 59,554 are pastoralist, 5,297 agriculturalist-pastoralist, 920 sedentary
    cultivators, 9,692 fishermen and sailors, and 3,097 merchants
    . - Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho


    Mostly pastoral nomads out of necessity but always seizing the chance to settle on the coast and fish and trade or practice agro-pastoralism and sedentary farming where possible. And, of course, the prevalence of agro-pastoralism and sedentary farming generally increased in areas with more arable land like the riverine south and parts of the northwest toward the Highlands where you see people who either speak Coastal-Northern Somali dialects or closely related Somali languages (Maay, Tunni, Jidu etc) who take up sedentary farming and, from what I've noticed, social dynamics not too dissimilar at times from those in the highlands where these people tend to start caring more about local family kinship ties, where they're from and so on rather than caring as much about the intricacies of clan lineages.

    And it's good you mentioned the Tigre because they're essentially just another link in the long observed chain that is "Coastal-Cushites", as in predominantly lowland dwelling Cushitic speaking peoples who mainly subsist on pastoralism out of obvious necessity but also take up coastal settling, agro-pastoralism and settled farming where it seems worth it to do so from Southeastern Egypt down to the Somali coast. Tigres are just an Ethiosemitized break in that chain. These peoples differ from their Highland Ethiopian neighbors in terms of subsistence out of obvious necessity and the social dynamics often found among them like tribalism, a more unruly streak and greater social mobility outside of exceptions like the pseudo caste system in the Horn is just something you typically tend to see when you're looking at nomadic pastoralists Vs. sedentary farmers:

     
    The Somali and Afar, and the Afar and Saho have traditions of common origin in the north-west corner of the Horn of Africa. All three peoples exhibit what
    is basically a common culture, the material culture being almost uniform, with differences among the Saho to be attributed to Ethiopian influence. Variations in
    ecology are also partly responsible for slight differences. Nomadism is the basic economy with the camel as burden animal, though among the Saho and in some parts
    of southern Somalia, camels are few and oxen replace them as beasts of burden. Cultivation is practised by some of the Saho, by very few Afar, but extensively in southern
    Somalia. - Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho


    If most of the Somali territories were as suitable for cultivation as the Ethiopian Highlands there wouldn't be much of a subsistence difference between Somalis and Habeshas and most likely not nearly as much of a difference in social dynamics where you're obviously right that there is often a very marked split in terms of both, so much so that even medieval and classical people noticed the overall cultural differences when they separated the coastal "Berber" people from the northern highlander "Abyssinian" people in their accounts.



    In a later part of your post you show that you seem to know Somalis herd goats and sheep so I don't know why you keep exaggerating like this to help your arguments or if you're really not all that knowledgeable about Somali subsistence, livestock and demographics. Somalis herd and herded plenty of animals other than camels. Namely horses, cattle, goats, sheep and donkeys. Camels are indeed the most revered, horses perhaps being an exception to this rule among warriors, with the order of importance after camels more or less being equivalent to the order I named those animals in prior but camels definitely were not the only animal herded or relied on, not by a long-shot. Depending on the region they could even be usurped as pack animals by cattle and most clans even in the north tended to have more sheep and goats than camels since they were historically more crucial to many Somalis for meat:

    Among meats, mutton is the favorite and dominates the use of all others; goat meat is the second most popular, with beef somewhere in the middle and camel meat being the least favorite. This order does not correlate to any perceived qualities of the meat but is mostly about availability. - Culture and Customs of Somalia, by Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi

    Sheep and goats are second to camels and cattle in the internal economy of the country, providing milk, ghee, and meat, of which, in the north at least, they are the main source.- Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho

     






    "In addition to some goats and sheep" indeed. Not to mention the fact that, our ancestors, once you go back far enough, would have been principally cattle, goat and sheep pastoralists much like the Pastoral Neolithic folk. Camels and horses are later introductions from the Middle East. The word for camel, Geel, even seems to have an Old-South-Arabian root.



    Maasais are a Cushite admixed population who likely got that from from their Cushitic speaking ancestors and the way that system appears among Arabs and Tuaregs isn't exactly like how it is in the Horn. I think you are being a little disingenuous here. Ethiosemitic speakers are largely derived from local Cushitic speakers. Seemingly upwards of 70% of their ancestry is of either Central, North or Highland-East Cushitic speaking origins and they likely would have inherited that custom from these groups who show it just like Somalis. It is a common Horn custom, found even among Omotic speakers, to maritally and socially ostracize blacksmiths, leather-workers, hunters and whatnot hence the Somali groups the Midgaan, Tumaal and Yibir who are not too dissimilar in how they were treated historically from many of the Beta-Israel. Let's not try to act like this is some coincidental similarity.

    I also find it odd that you were once highlighting the dressing style of Somalis from about a century ago and didn't take the time to notice how similar it was to the style of dress often found all over the Highlands:

     

    Somalia 1889, Merka Market


    People at the Court of King Sahle Selassie in Shewa 1847

    A wider collection of past Somalis and Habeshas with some Bejas on top


    ^ No Arabs, Maasais and Tuaregs or even Rendille dressing like that. And this overall similarity in material culture wasn't something that was lost to people visiting or studying the region either. Then there's shared cuisines like Canjeero/Injera/Laxoox which was historically a common staple among various groups in the Horn or even random shared customs like this. Let's not pretend there aren't numerous shared cultural traits here that are either anciently shared or developed while Horners were interacting with each other constantly over the last several hundreds to thousands of years.



    Somali Y-DNA is pretty skewed by what look to be founder-effects that are common among patriarchal pastoral nomads like us. Pretty sure our ancient predecessors had plenty of lineages like A-M13, E-V6, E-V22, E-M293 and what not like other Cushites but one look at Habesha mtDNA vs. Somali mtDNA or Somali mtDNA vs. general Highlander mtDNA and you notice that while there are clear differences there are a whole lot of clearly shared lineages and it's not like E-V32 and T-M70 subclades aren't common in the Highlands. Our own Habesha member, Lank, belongs to a V32 subclade. But hey, man... not gonna deny that many of our subclades within many of these shared lineages are probably pretty well separated or that Somalis have very little J1 (and no J2) in comparison to Habeshas and far lower amounts of the South-Arabian admixture in the Horn which makes sense since we live on the eastern end of the Horn and aren't Ethiosemitized in the least.



    Utter nonsense. The Toubou comparison makes about as much sense as comparing us to Fulanis and I could hear you regarding some of the Rendille as it can make genetic sense depending on the samples you're looking at but groups like the Maasai? My friend, the Maasai are often half as much MENA as Somalis. As in a basal admixture difference as high as 25% when the difference between Somalis and Habeshas in this respect is normally like 10-15% or so:

     


    Somalis are far closer to Habeshas by every genetic metric out there than to them and every group you have mentioned with the exception of Rendilles and probably also Arsi Oromos. Not to mention that these groups south of the Horn tend to carry a lot of ancestry completely foreign to Horners who seem to all be basally made up of the same stuff, albeit at noticeably varying levels:

     




    And this genetic difference frankly shows in their looks, hence why many of the Somalis in this thread reacted the way they did to your phenotypic assessment. Personally, all I'll say is that even though recent formal stats and G25 results show Somalis have Mota-related ancestry and even some South-Arabian ancestry like Habeshas (though far less overall), anyone can see an overall difference in looks between our two groups yet there is a fair amount of overall similarity and overlap which makes sense with the genetics and I'll leave it at that and not really go deep into the phenotype rabbit hole with you as its all subjective and will go nowhere.

    As for culturally... what are you on about? Somalis are, culturally speaking, just an extension of the Cushitic speaking peoples of the Horn itself whether that be fellow Coastal-Cushites or groups further to the interior like Oromos and Sidamics with some obvious influences from Arabia and the greater Indian Ocean region. Full stop. We don't have any of the obvious Nilotic influences in groups like the Maasai and Rendile, for example. Even when you compare Somalis who live right next to them to these groups. Not gonna deny there are many obvious similarities and shared roots like the obvious linguistic closeness to the Rendile but you don't even need to be a scholar or read a book for this... Simply look at them and look at those images I shared of Early-Modern Somalis earlier. Maasais don't even use the typical Cushitic nomad mat-tent, for god's sake.



    The split between easterly lowlanders and westerly highlandlyers in the Horn is one of the deepest in the region and tends to correlate with a lot of differences in terms of subsistence, customs, religion and even linguistics and this is pretty uncontroversial and well-known even in the region itself but there's no need to exaggerate and warp reality to put this point across as you did.
    it is good you mentioned the Somali haplogroups. There are 2 Somali (1 said is a Darood clan), and are both from North Somalia, they are E-M293. They seemed suprised and don't understand how E-M293 got in Somalia. Their autosomal is 96+% Somali on 23andme.

  17. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Alfa For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-03-2020),  Awale (07-01-2020),  drobbah (07-01-2020),  Lank (07-01-2020),  Omaar (07-01-2020),  pgbk87 (07-01-2020)

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