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Thread: HarappaWorld averages by state in India (S Indian, W Eurasian, and E Eurasian)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Uttarkhand looks like it is more East Asian than a Northeastern State (Manipur?). What are some groups representing Uttarkhand?
    Manipur is 77% vs 30% in Uttarkhand lol. I think you may be referring to Assam (Jortita).

    The East Eurasian for Assam though is indeed odd.
    Last edited by Kulin; 08-08-2019 at 04:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    Kashmir - Kashmiri (3 samples harappa avg)
    punjab - punjabi (13 samples harappa)
    himachal and uttarakhand (estimated it through Uttaranchal brahmin sample on harappa).
    Yes, the numbers looked familiar so I presumed they were taken from Zack's sheet. The Punjabi (13 samples) average is probably not too off for the non-dalit Punjabi demographic but it probably isn't in line with actual demographics (Jatt Sikhs outnumber everyone else i.e. Khatri, Gujjar, Tarkhan, Rajput, Saini, Kamboj, Brahmin, etc. substantially).

    Himachal is a tough state to do because I imagine it is very heterogeneous even being dominated by upper caste types (Brahmin, Rajput, etc.) as there are also heavily Sino-Tibetan influenced groups in the region. Honestly, I don't think we have enough data on Uttarakhand or Himachal to present data on them. I have feeling their non Brahmin groups may have substantial Sino-Tibetan like admixture. In the case of Uttarakhand, even some of their Brahmins do (based on 1 sample).

    Finally, Kashmir (the Valley) mostly consists of Muslims who are supposed to be primarily descendant of Pandits (Bhat, Dar, Sapru, etc.) so Pandits should be fairly representative of them. Non Brahmin names such as Lone, Wani and Rather are supposed to be of Hindu Kashmiri origin as well and all of the Muslim Kashmiri results I've seen score very close to Pandits.

    On the other hand, the Dogras of Jammu shouldn't be substantially different than bored/his father and the Rajput/Pahari results we have seen from neighboring Potohar/Southern Azad Kashmir.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 08-08-2019 at 07:47 AM.
    pegasus modeling:

    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Yes, the numbers looked familiar so I presumed they were taken from Zack's sheet. The Punjabi (13 samples) average is probably not too off for the non-dalit Punjabi demographic but it probably isn't in line with actual demographics (Jatt Sikhs outnumber everyone else (Khatri, Gujjar, Tarkhan, Rajput, Saini, Brahmin, etc. substantially).

    Himachal is a tough state to do because I imagine it is very heterogeneous even being dominated by upper caste types (Brahmin, Rajput, etc.) as there are also heavily Sino-Tibetan influenced groups in the region. Honestly, I don't think we have enough data on Uttarakhand or Himachal to present data on them. I have feeling their non Brahmin groups may have substantial Sino-Tibetan like admixture. In the case of Uttarakhand, even some of their Brahmins do.
    Yeah i used kenji's results for himachal and jat sikhs for punjab. jat sikhs are more representative of indian punjab anyways so thanks for clarifying that.

    Himachal is a tough state so i just used kenji's results. but uttarakhand might have significant mongoloid. I used uttaranchal brahmin just cause its the only average available haha. There is a bisht sample that i posted here before on the harappa thread and she gets 60+% mongoloid and in oracles she comes out as 2/3 tibetan and 1/3 gangetic plain type

    # Population Percent
    1 NE-Asian 47.64
    2 S-Indian 20.28
    3 Baloch 13.74
    4 SE-Asian 5.54
    5 Siberian 5.11
    6 NE-Euro 4.68
    7 Caucasian 1.78
    8 SW-Asian 0.85
    9 Papuan 0.29
    10 Pygmy 0.06
    11 American 0.02
    12 Beringian 0.01

     
    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 nepalese-b (xing) 8.97
    2 garo (chaubey) 24.11
    3 burmanese (chaubey) 24.51
    4 uyghur (hgdp) 26.91
    5 nepalese-c (xing) 27.6
    6 hazara (hgdp) 28.88
    7 tu (hgdp) 30.37
    8 mongola (hgdp) 30.76
    9 xibo (hgdp) 31.28
    10 naxi (hgdp) 31.94
    11 yi (hgdp) 32.52
    12 kyrgyz (hodoglugil) 33.62
    13 kyrgyz (xing) 34.11
    14 japanese (hgdp) 34.34
    15 khasi (chaubey) 34.39
    16 tibet (simonson) 34.92
    17 kazakh (harappa) 35.16
    18 hezhen (hgdp) 35.75
    19 uzbek (behar) 35.83
    20 daur (hgdp) 36.3

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 65.2% tu (hgdp) + 34.8% kanjar (metspalu) @ 2.62
    2 65.1% tu (hgdp) + 34.9% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.64
    3 64.8% tu (hgdp) + 35.2% srivastava (reich) @ 2.65
    4 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% bihari (harappa) @ 2.69
    5 64.6% tu (hgdp) + 35.4% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.69
    6 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.74
    7 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% up-muslim (metspalu) @ 2.74
    8 64.9% tu (hgdp) + 35.1% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 2.75
    9 56.9% nepalese-c (xing) + 43.1% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 2.87
    10 65.1% tu (hgdp) + 34.9% tharu (metspalu) @ 2.92
    11 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.98
    12 53.7% nepalese-c (xing) + 46.3% naxi (hgdp) @ 3
    13 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 3.03
    14 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% gujarati (harappa) @ 3.08
    15 60.6% han-nchina (hgdp) + 39.4% srivastava (reich) @ 3.12
    16 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% vaish (reich) @ 3.16
    17 64.1% tu (hgdp) + 35.9% caribbean-indian (harappa) @ 3.17
    18 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 3.18
    19 64.2% tu (hgdp) + 35.8% up (harappa) @ 3.18
    20 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 3.21

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    Yeah i used kenji's results for himachal and jat sikhs for punjab. jat sikhs are more representative of indian punjab anyways so thanks for clarifying that.

    Himachal is a tough state so i just used kenji's results. but uttarakhand might have significant mongoloid. I used uttaranchal brahmin just cause its the only average available haha. There is a bisht sample that i posted here before on the harappa thread and she gets 60+% mongoloid and in oracles she comes out as 2/3 tibetan and 1/3 gangetic plain type

    # Population Percent
    1 NE-Asian 47.64
    2 S-Indian 20.28
    3 Baloch 13.74
    4 SE-Asian 5.54
    5 Siberian 5.11
    6 NE-Euro 4.68
    7 Caucasian 1.78
    8 SW-Asian 0.85
    9 Papuan 0.29
    10 Pygmy 0.06
    11 American 0.02
    12 Beringian 0.01

     
    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 nepalese-b (xing) 8.97
    2 garo (chaubey) 24.11
    3 burmanese (chaubey) 24.51
    4 uyghur (hgdp) 26.91
    5 nepalese-c (xing) 27.6
    6 hazara (hgdp) 28.88
    7 tu (hgdp) 30.37
    8 mongola (hgdp) 30.76
    9 xibo (hgdp) 31.28
    10 naxi (hgdp) 31.94
    11 yi (hgdp) 32.52
    12 kyrgyz (hodoglugil) 33.62
    13 kyrgyz (xing) 34.11
    14 japanese (hgdp) 34.34
    15 khasi (chaubey) 34.39
    16 tibet (simonson) 34.92
    17 kazakh (harappa) 35.16
    18 hezhen (hgdp) 35.75
    19 uzbek (behar) 35.83
    20 daur (hgdp) 36.3

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 65.2% tu (hgdp) + 34.8% kanjar (metspalu) @ 2.62
    2 65.1% tu (hgdp) + 34.9% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.64
    3 64.8% tu (hgdp) + 35.2% srivastava (reich) @ 2.65
    4 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% bihari (harappa) @ 2.69
    5 64.6% tu (hgdp) + 35.4% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.69
    6 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.74
    7 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% up-muslim (metspalu) @ 2.74
    8 64.9% tu (hgdp) + 35.1% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 2.75
    9 56.9% nepalese-c (xing) + 43.1% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 2.87
    10 65.1% tu (hgdp) + 34.9% tharu (metspalu) @ 2.92
    11 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.98
    12 53.7% nepalese-c (xing) + 46.3% naxi (hgdp) @ 3
    13 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 3.03
    14 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% gujarati (harappa) @ 3.08
    15 60.6% han-nchina (hgdp) + 39.4% srivastava (reich) @ 3.12
    16 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% vaish (reich) @ 3.16
    17 64.1% tu (hgdp) + 35.9% caribbean-indian (harappa) @ 3.17
    18 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 3.18
    19 64.2% tu (hgdp) + 35.8% up (harappa) @ 3.18
    20 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 3.21
    You can use Kenji's parents results for Himachal. Also We've a lot of Khatri, Saini, Kamboj and Tarkhan results who together make a good chunk of Punjabi population, maybe add them too?

    Kenji's father results:


    S-Indian 34.15
    Baloch 36.25
    Caucasian 10.44
    NE-Euro 9.72
    SE-Asian 1.84
    Siberian 0.94
    NE-Asian 1.82
    Papuan 0.87
    American 1.72
    Beringian 1.25
    Mediterranean 0.19
    SW-Asian 0.82
    San -
    E-African -
    Pygmy -
    W-African -

    Kenji mom:

    S-Indian 36.67
    Baloch 33.28
    Caucasian 11.27
    NE-Euro 9.34
    SE-Asian 0.94
    Siberian 2.55
    NE-Asian 1.23
    Papuan 1.19
    American 0.57
    Beringian 1.71
    Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian 1.25
    San -
    E-African -
    Pygmy -
    W-African -
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

    Punjab, Punjabi, Fateh.

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    Individual components

    BALOCH


    CAUCASIAN


    NORTH EAST EUROPEAN
    Last edited by kush; 08-08-2019 at 08:24 AM.

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    NORTH EAST ASIAN


    SIBERIAN/AMERICAN/BERINGIAN


    SOUTH EAST ASIAN

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    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    I used khatri, ramgharias, and jatt sikhs for punjab average. the updated maps are in OP now.
    This probably isn't accurate demographics wise as Khatris and Ramgarhias combined are possibly 6-7% of Sikhs while Jatts are approximately 25% (Sikhs are somewhere between 54-60% of the Punjabi population). Anyways, if you're combining the Harappa averages, it's best to consider the amount of samples (15 Jatt Sikhs + 3 Khatris + 2 Ramgarhias) when doing the averages rather than just averaging the overall groups since that is giving each group equal weight when they aren't in terms of proportion of the population.



    https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...cle5497692.ece

    Jat Sikhs who constitute nearly 25 per cent of Punjab’s 3.6 crore population are considered among the landed affluent and the socially and politically dominant castes in the State.
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/14107198.cms

    According to Jakhar, Sikhs comprise 54% population of Punjab, of which, 25% are Jat Sikhs
    Last edited by Sapporo; 08-08-2019 at 07:41 AM.
    pegasus modeling:

    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

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  15. #18
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    Lets not split hairs over minor differences

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    This probably isn't accurate demographics wise as Khatris and Ramgarhias combined are possibly 6-7% of Sikhs while Jatts are approximately 25% (Sikhs are somewhere between 54-60% of the Punjabi population). Anyways, if you're combining the Harappa averages, it's best to consider the amount of samples (15 Jatt Sikhs + 3 Khatris + 2 Ramgarhias) when doing the averages rather than just averaging the overall groups since that is giving each group equal weight when they aren't in terms of proportion of the population.



    https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...cle5497692.ece



    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/14107198.cms
    yeah I guess I should have just used jat sikhs. I accounted for the number of samples as well and these are the results. Its not that different from when the number of samples are not accounted for imo. 1% lower south indian and baloch, same caucasian, and 1% higher euro.

    S Indian 28.75
    Baloch 39.15
    Caucasian 10.55
    NE Euro 11.4
    SE Asian 0
    Siberian 1.1
    NE Asian 0.1
    Papuan 0.9
    American 1.05
    Beringian 1.15
    Mediterranean 1.7
    SW Asian 1.9
    San 0
    E African 0
    Pygmy 0
    W African 0

    btw bro, I switched the maps to jatt sikh average.
    Last edited by kush; 08-08-2019 at 08:25 AM.

  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Lets not split hairs over minor differences
    The percentages themselves don't matter as much as the actual populations being used (which can cause minor to massive differences in the admixture numbers). Personally, I wouldn't even use Zack's Harappa averages when I have more than 10 individual kits from each of the major groups in Indian Punjab.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1369294505

    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    yeah I guess I should have just used jat sikhs. I accounted for the number of samples as well and these are the results. Its not that different from when the number of samples are not accounted for imo. 1% lower south indian and baloch, same caucasian, and 1% higher euro.

    S Indian 28.75
    Baloch 39.15
    Caucasian 10.55
    NE Euro 11.4
    SE Asian 0
    Siberian 1.1
    NE Asian 0.1
    Papuan 0.9
    American 1.05
    Beringian 1.15
    Mediterranean 1.7
    SW Asian 1.9
    San 0
    E African 0
    Pygmy 0
    W African 0

    btw bro, I switched the maps to jatt sikh average.
    I have no problem with including the 5 (3 Khatri + 2 Ramgarhia) samples but it's probably better to average all 20 individuals rather than using group averages and just averaging the 3 as it is more proportional to the actual demographics and the samples being used. At the end of the day, it's your map. I'm just noting how I would approach it.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 08-08-2019 at 08:47 AM.
    pegasus modeling:

    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

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