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Thread: mtDNA samples from Haryana for Yadav population

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by prashantvaidwan View Post
    Yadav is only used by ahirs/gwala and they claim themselves yaduvanshi. On the other hand, there are other castes as Rajputs and jats etc claiming their origin from yaduvansh but they don't use Yadav title
    I find that ironic. Ahir/Abhir (predominantly gwala) in the east too now call themselves Yadav.
    But it was the Abhirs that were responsible (per Mahabharat) for the demise/scattering of the Yadus.

    The Abhirs were one of the ruling clans of the Konkan/Gujarat area as well later in other parts - Bihar area and Nepal's Ahir-Gupt come to mind. There was also a theory that the Tamil Iyer/Iyengar were Abhir Brahmans (aiyar=ayir=ahir=abhir=abiria=ophir). Our related babhan clan of jaitharia is also considered ahir (supposedly their progenitor was a Raut-chief of Rati).
    "there is one section of the Bhumihars known as Jetharia, about which it is generally admitted that it has originated from one Gowala (Ahir) called Rati Raut, who at one time was the chief of Rati Paragana in north Bihar."

    The Abhirs lived on the seashore of western India (Nasik, Abhir-Gujarat) and on the bank of the Sarasvati where it passes near Somnath. After the fall of Dwaraka, when Arjun was taking the Yadu women of Dwaraka to Indraprasth, the Abhirs attacked the retinue and took away the Yadu's women and wealth.

    Mahabharat: "... each of them seizing a wife of Krishna by the hand, they were carrying them off before his eyes into disgraceful bondage, when Arjn became so overcome with indignation that he was about to kill himself. Again, however, he seized his bow, and after very many efforts, was at last able to draw it. Several of the robbers now bit the dust; but, contrary to former experience, which led him to expect that his quiver, through the influence of some supernatural agency, would as usual be replenished, he found that by frequent discharges he had expended every shaft. Arjn in despair now rushed into the midst of the banditti, and smote them in different direc*tions with his bow alone. The robbers were however in such numbers, that they continued, before his eyes, to carry off the women, treasure, and jewels, and every other description of property, almost without resistance. It was then, finding that all his efforts to prevent these deeds of violence and atrocity were unavailing, that Arjn sat down to bewail the cruelty of his destiny. “Alas,” cried he, “my fortune expired with Krishna.”"

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I find that ironic. Ahir/Abhir (predominantly gwala) in the east too now call themselves Yadav.
    But it was the Abhirs that were responsible (per Mahabharat) for the demise/scattering of the Yadus.

    The Abhirs were one of the ruling clans of the Konkan/Gujarat area as well later in other parts - Bihar area and Nepal's Ahir-Gupt come to mind. There was also a theory that the Tamil Iyer/Iyengar were Abhir Brahmans (aiyar=ayir=ahir=abhir=abiria=ophir). Our related babhan clan of jaitharia is also considered ahir (supposedly their progenitor was a Raut-chief of Rati).
    "there is one section of the Bhumihars known as Jetharia, about which it is generally admitted that it has originated from one Gowala (Ahir) called Rati Raut, who at one time was the chief of Rati Paragana in north Bihar."

    The Abhirs lived on the seashore of western India (Nasik, Abhir-Gujarat) and on the bank of the Sarasvati where it passes near Somnath. After the fall of Dwaraka, when Arjun was taking the Yadu women of Dwaraka to Indraprasth, the Abhirs attacked the retinue and took away the Yadu's women and wealth.

    Mahabharat: "... each of them seizing a wife of Krishna by the hand, they were carrying them off before his eyes into disgraceful bondage, when Arjn became so overcome with indignation that he was about to kill himself. Again, however, he seized his bow, and after very many efforts, was at last able to draw it. Several of the robbers now bit the dust; but, contrary to former experience, which led him to expect that his quiver, through the influence of some supernatural agency, would as usual be replenished, he found that by frequent discharges he had expended every shaft. Arjn in despair now rushed into the midst of the banditti, and smote them in different direc*tions with his bow alone. The robbers were however in such numbers, that they continued, before his eyes, to carry off the women, treasure, and jewels, and every other description of property, almost without resistance. It was then, finding that all his efforts to prevent these deeds of violence and atrocity were unavailing, that Arjn sat down to bewail the cruelty of his destiny. “Alas,” cried he, “my fortune expired with Krishna.”"
    Even though separate names, most of these groups are all clads of H1. H1 runs like close to 30% among Yadavs & related castes,35% Marathas Mahars etc.., 10-20% Rajputs, 15-20% Brahmins, 30% Lingayaths, 50-80% Central India tribals living in small kingdoms, 10-25% in Southern higher castes, 20-35% in lower castes, Lingayaths are 30%, 30-80% Gujarat tribals etc...

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Even though separate names, most of these groups are all clads of H1. H1 runs like close to 30% among Yadavs & related castes,35% Marathas Mahars etc.., 10-20% Rajputs, 15-20% Brahmins, 30% Lingayaths, 50-80% Central India tribals living in small kingdoms, 10-25% in Southern higher castes, 20-35% in lower castes, Lingayaths are 30%, 30-80% Gujarat tribals etc...
    From what little we know of Bihar Yadavs they are almost all Y-R.
    87.5% https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/su...714Table_3.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    From what little we know of Bihar Yadavs they are almost all Y-R.
    87.5% https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/su...714Table_3.pdf
    There is another page in that PDF which has H info you arae missing. That study is little bit skewed towards R1a since even smaller Indian castes show up big percent of R1 which is not true. The sample size of populations are like 10-20 which might be a typical office setting easy to get samples from close similar groups.

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    There is another page in that PDF which has H info you arae missing. That study is little bit skewed towards R1a since even smaller Indian castes show up big percent of R1 which is not true. The sample size of populations are like 10-20 which might be a typical office setting easy to get samples from close similar groups.
    Yes I have seen the second table too.

    While it is true that sample sizes are small - as you can see the tribals have almost no Y-R. They are nearly all Y-O.

    On the other hand for Bihar caste populations including low high and middle we have:
    BANIYA IE BIH 64%
    BHUMIHAR IE BIH 75%
    BIHAR BRAHMIN BIH 78%
    KAYASTHA BIH 50%
    KURMI IE BIH 46%
    RAJPUT IE BIH 75%

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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes I have seen the second table too.

    While it is true that sample sizes are small - as you can see the tribals have almost no Y-R. They are nearly all Y-O.

    On the other hand for Bihar caste populations including low high and middle we have:
    BANIYA IE BIH 64%
    BHUMIHAR IE BIH 75%
    BIHAR BRAHMIN BIH 78%
    KAYASTHA BIH 50%
    KURMI IE BIH 46%
    RAJPUT IE BIH 75%
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_..._of_South_Asia

    visited by many people, shows different figures. in Bihar Paswans show 51.5% R & Brahmins 65%. Others are way lower. many Kayasta shows very high F & H inspite of high R1a & R2.

    UP Kurmi shows 100% H1 & Bihar around 50% H1, the other evenly distrubuted R1, R2 & J2.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found -> Jiroft 11459 ShahriSokte BA2 2875BCE
    mtDNA:U2a1a
    extras 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2 CG8572A G8860A T11368C T16093a T16154C C16519T

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.99 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3:S8728.E1.L1 65.2 Saidu_Sharif_IA_o:S7722.E1.L1 17.8 Udegram_IA:I1985 7.8 Jordanian:S_Jordanian-1 4.4 Barikot_IA:I6545 2.2 Scotland_N:I2660 2 Donkalnis6

    LactoseP rs3213871 rs4988243

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_..._of_South_Asia

    visited by many people, shows different figures. in Bihar Paswans show 51.5% R & Brahmins 65% ...
    Yes Y-R is high across castes in the 50% range in that area as per the Sharma (https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg20082/tables/1) paper. The Paswan (considered a scheduled caste) in Bihar have Y-R at 51.5% and Brahmans have Y-R at 71% (60.53+5.26+5.26). In Bangal Brahmans Y-R goes up to 94%. About the same is seen in the Tarai of Nepal.

    Caste populations have H also. Per Sharma Bihar Brahman - 0, Paswan 3.70, West Bengal Brahman 5.56%. It seems to be significantly higher in U.P.
    But there is a clear R vs O disconnect with the non-IE tribals. That is why I think one these groups is very recent.

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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    ....Ahir/Abhir (predominantly gwala) in the east too now call themselves Yadav.
    ...

    The Abhirs were one of the ruling clans of the Konkan/Gujarat area ...
    From the British period - when the Yadav title was not yet in vogue they were known as Ahirs.
    "Ahirs, also known as Goalas, rank first in point of numerical strength."
    https://books.google.com/books?id=p7-ibcXzCi4C&pg=PA44
    "In 1931 Ahirs ranked first in every distr."
    The Distribution of Selected Castes in the North Indian Plain
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/212410?...n_tab_contents

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  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by prashantvaidwan View Post
    Haryana Yadavs are high R1a as well ( 56% as per a past study) along with European mtdna H as revealed by this study. It will be interesting to see their autosomal profiles. Has anyone ever come across Haryana Yadav on gedmatch or somewhere else?
    That is correct - one of the highest R1a1 %ages per Underhill
    Ahir 63%

    Some others with 60 or above:
    Haryana/Punjab Khatri 67%
    Sindh Mohanna 71%
    Pakistan Rajput 60%
    Gujarat Bhanusali 67%
    Gujarat Lohana 60%

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    From the British period - when the Yadav title was not yet in vogue they were known as Ahirs.
    "Ahirs, also known as Goalas, rank first in point of numerical strength."
    https://books.google.com/books?id=p7-ibcXzCi4C&pg=PA44
    "In 1931 Ahirs ranked first in every distr."
    The Distribution of Selected Castes in the North Indian Plain
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/212410?...n_tab_contents
    CLASSIFICATION OF YADAVS

    http://yadavmahasabha.blogspot.com/2...ut-yadavs.html

    Yaduvanshi - These are prominent in Rajasthan, Haryana, Maharastra, South India, Uttar Pradesh and Gujrat
    Nandvanshi - These are prominent in Western UP Etah, Bulandshahar, Agra,Madhya Pradesh, Maharastra, Gujratand Mathura.
    Gwal Bansi - The gwalas (children who used to play with Yadav king Lord Krishna) are considered the lowest of the three. They are spread out in Bihar to Bengal. For some decades they have struggled with Bhumihars (land owners) for their right to cultivate their own land for farming.

    This is similar all over India. The Top castes many have Yadu tribes of Chandra Vansh assimilations like in Marathas, Rajputs, Lingayats, Kammas, Reddies, Sainis, Patels, Some Kurmis etc.. There are many OBC castes that are descendant of original Yadu tribes all over India
    and many SC & ST communities that formed due to exposure to austroasiatic tribals over many millenium.

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