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Thread: FGC5496 (L21>DF13>FGC5496) and Subclades

  1. #11
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    I am looking for five more guys, one each from each of the below DF13 subclade for testing FGC5496. Please PM me if interested.

    R1b1a2a1a2c1c L96
    R1b1a2a1a2c1d L144.1/S175, L195/S354
    R1b1a2a1a2c1h L371/S300
    R1b1a2a1a2c1m CTS2457.2
    R1b1a2a1a2c1n L679

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJost View Post
    Since PGP50 showed only two of 69 SNPs as being positive, this is an old subclade. ..... Especially with the S7958/FGC5495 being positive between 12 britainsdna guys and me. Please test.

    MJost
    Indeed one would expect quite a few branches to appear under FGC5495 &FGC5496 in time.

    Did Jim Wilson say how many of his 12 had Scots ancestry?

    Do your shared STRs with other S7958+ allow identification of a rudimentary modal haplotype?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by greystones22 View Post
    Indeed one would expect quite a few branches to appear under FGC5495 &FGC5496 in time.

    Did Jim Wilson say how many of his 12 had Scots ancestry?

    Do your shared STRs with other S7958+ allow identification of a rudimentary modal haplotype?
    Andy,

    JimW did say he had '12 members at the minute, including non-British Isles representation' but did not respond to the geographic breakdown question I had. There are now three S7958/FGC5496 guys, two have ordered FGC5496 and the third is considering it. These three have a continental ancestry; patrilineal line from Franconia, 16th century Berkshire, England & Dieppe, but JimW stated just a few non-isles Guys.


    The four of us have a TMRCA of:
    Mean Generations StdDevInGen YBP +OR-YBP Max-YBP
    106.7 24.8 3,200.1 745.3 3,945.4

    The Four Kits haplotype modal is:

    Modal
    393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389i 392 389ii-i 458 459a 459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a 464b 464c 464d 464e 464f 464g 460 GataH4 YCAIIa YCAIIb 456 607 576 570 CDYa CDYb 442 438 531 578 395s1a 395s1b 590 537 641 472 406s1 511 425 413a 413b 557 594 436 490 534 450 444 481 520 446 617 568 487 572 640 492 565
    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 16 18 9 9 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 15 16 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 17 17 36 39 12 12 12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

    Off modal STRs
    458 459b 447 449 464c 576 CDYb 531 413a 534
    18 9 24 29 16 17 39 12 22 16<FGC5496
    17 10 25 30 17 18 38 11 23 15< L21


    MJost
    Last edited by MJost; 01-08-2014 at 02:35 PM.
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MJost For This Useful Post:

     greystones22 (01-08-2014),  Wolds Wanderer (01-08-2014)

  5. #14
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    Thank You. I ordered FGC5496

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Brunetmj For This Useful Post:

     MJost (01-08-2014),  Wolds Wanderer (01-08-2014)

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJost View Post
    There are now three S7958/FGC5496 guys, two have ordered FGC5496 and the third is considering it. These three have a continental ancestry; patrilineal line from Franconia, Germany & Dieppe, but JimW stated just a few non-isles Guys.
    Mark,

    If those three include me, my patrilineal line goes back to 16th century Berkshire, England.

    Keith

    (F289737 Willis)

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Wolds Wanderer For This Useful Post:

     MJost (01-08-2014)

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolds Wanderer View Post
    Mark,

    If those three include me, my patrilineal line goes back to 16th century Berkshire, England.

    Keith

    (F289737 Willis)
    My speed reading, sorry. Correcting my list.
    I knew that....

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  10. #17
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    No problem

    Keith

  11. #18
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    From an "inside-out" point of view here are the closest people to Mark J FGC5496+ at 67 STRs. The GDs go 1 (to a Watterson) up to 15.

    f148326 Watterson R1b-L21>DF13>FGC5496 FGC5496+ L21+ DF13+ L21+ L459+ Z245+ CTS4466- DF21- DF23- DF41- DF49- DF5- DF63- L130- L1334- L1335- L144- L159.2- L192.1- L193- L195- L226- L513- L526- L563- L96- M222- M37- P314.2- P66- Z251- Z253- Z254- Z255- FGC5495+ FGC5507+ FGC5508+ FGC5509+ FGC5516+ FGC5517+ FGC5518+ FGC5519+ FGC5520+ FGC5521+ FGC5522+ FGC5523+ FGC5524+ FGC5525+ FGC5526+ FGC5527+ FGC5528+ FGC5493+ FGC5529+ FGC5530+ FGC5531+ FGC5532+ FGC5533+ FGC5534+ FGC5535+ FGC5536+ FGC5537+ FGC5538+ FGC5539+ FGC5540+ FGC5541+ FGC5542+ FGC5543+ FGC5544+ FGC5550+ FGC5551+ FGC5552+ FGC5553+ FGC5554+ FGC5555+ FGC5556+ FGC5560+ L10- L144- L193- L195- L21+ L302- L319.1- L371- L555- L9- M37- P66- L130- L69- 3c1g (WTY) {FG} z1130-A1-A

    f316063 Watterson zzL21suspect z1130-A1-A

    fN41593 Cook R1b-L21 L21+ z1130-A1-A

    f206731 Watterson R1b-L21 L21+ L144- L148- L159.2- L164- L176.2- L188- L193- L196- L217- L226- L96- M222- M37- P314.2- P66- z1130-A1-A

    f260963 Curry zzL21suspect z1130-A1-A

    f73430 Curry zzL21suspect z1130-A1-A

    f155812 Ross R1b-L21 L21+ M222- M37- P66- 3c1g z1130-A1-A

    f208357 Briggs zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f68079 Appleby zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f98213 Byrne zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f206703 Cawley zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f140678 Dealy R1b-L21 L21+ L144- L159.2- L176.2- L193- L196- L217- L226- L96- M222- M37- P314.2- P66- z1130-A1

    f236390 Mitchell zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f162251 Appleby R1b-L21 L21+ M222- M37- P66- z1130-A1

    f131975 Dewane R1b-L21 L21+ M222- M37- P66- z1130-A1

    f52460 Harley R1b-L21 L21+ L144- L159.2- L193- L226- L96- M222- M37- P66- z1130-A1

    f104939 Stewart zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f217197 zzzUnk(McCain) zzL21suspect z1130-A1

    f135096 Mitchell zzL21suspect z1130-A1


    After that, the next several groups of people are positive for other major subclades of DF13 that are known to be exclusive to FGC4596. That kind of puts a fence around this cluster/variety.

    At GDs of up to 15 you may not think this is a strong variety but I think it is because the STR signature is fairly firm and unusual.
    385=12,14 449>=30 531>=12 511>=11 (456>=17) & 19>=15
    Plus there are no other signatures that are partial/half fits, etc.

    BTW, Mark, if I've got the surnames wrong let me know.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 01-08-2014 at 11:25 PM.

  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    From an "inside-out" point of view here are the closest people to Mark J FGC5496+ at 67 STRs.....
    z1130-A1 (variety label that Mark is in)

    After that, the next several groups of people are positive for other major subclades of DF13 that are known to be exclusive to FGC4596. That kind of puts a fence around this cluster/variety.

    At GDs of up to 15 you may not think this is a strong variety but I think it is because the STR signature is fairly firm and unusual.
    385=12,14 449>=30 531>=12 511>=11 (456>=17) & 19>=15
    ...
    The z1130-A1 variety is not that large. If Jim Wilson has presented he's found a number of equivalent derived people, the implication is that FGC5496 is quite old and any DF13* person is a candidate.

    I sent him the list of surnames so he could check in his database if he is pulling from the same list as z1130-A1.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 01-08-2014 at 11:35 PM.

  13. #20
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    Yes I accept the surname, but my wife just laughs when I tell her I am adding it as a dashed name. lol

    There are 12 Britains DNA Chromo2 Chip showing positive for my failed Sanger Sequenced FGC5495 SNP AKA S7958, three interested DF13* guys came forward and have ordered FGC5496 to see if having S7958 is closely associated with FGC5496. This should confirm or deny how wide the net is. Note, there were 69 new SNPs and only two were in common with a public dataset so it will prove to be old.

    Oh by the way. I have 11 more single asterisk Level (>90%) ranked SNPs to be tested along with three more originally submitted positions that the designed primers failed but should not have failed. Thomas and Astrid has fixed two of them so far.

    MJost (-Watterson)
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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