Page 12 of 45 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 447

Thread: An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers

  1. #111
    Registered Users
    Posts
    18

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    It didn't replace it exactly. It formed from it in large part.
    this is true, but that wouldn't make my scenario any less likely?
    Last edited by Ellerbe; 09-08-2019 at 12:27 AM.

  2. #112
    Registered Users
    Posts
    757
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    BMAC has been considered "Aryan" to the core as an early Indo-European settlement and one of the most important Indo-Iranian archaeological and cultural stronghold for a long time.
    Max Muller associated the first imaginary Aryan Homeland probably in Bactria.
    Mallory, David Anthony, Lubotsky, Witzel all considered BMAC as decisive in the Indo-European formation and they thought the movement had been from Central Asia to Iran but genetic reality has shown BMAC was related from Iran to Central Asia. Indo-European is always found with types of Iranian/CHG components and not necessarily the Steppe component as BMAC has proven.
    "The BMAC now plays a very important role in the discussions of the archaeology of the early Indo-Europeans" - Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture - J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams, p.73
    The exclusive Ancient Iranian Y-DNA haplogroups are just another evidence of the complexity and extension of the PIE movements in Northern Iran/BMAC and the Caspian Sea where they could pass the Indo-European language, culture and values to new Admixed/Mestizo formations in the Volga/Yamnaya, Eastern Europe, Central Asia and India.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     parasar (09-08-2019),  Power77 (09-08-2019)

  4. #113
    Moderator
    Posts
    1,822
    Sex
    Location
    Viseu
    Ethnicity
    Romanised Paesuri
    Nationality
    Portuguese
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y31991 Y168273
    mtDNA (M)
    H20

    Asturias Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    "The BMAC now plays a very important role in the discussions of the archaeology of the early Indo-Europeans" - Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture - J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams, p.73
    Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture is from 1997, we're in 2019 and we have ancient DNA. Things change.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y168273 (Scythian/Sarmatian). Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

  5. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (09-08-2019),  Camulogène Rix (09-08-2019),  Ellerbe (09-08-2019),  Kulin (09-08-2019),  poi (09-08-2019),  Power77 (09-08-2019),  R.Rocca (09-08-2019),  VytautusofAukstaitija (09-08-2019)

  6. #114
    Registered Users
    Posts
    757
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    Yes, now we have ancient DNA and the respective/correspondent ancient culture ! We can match each other !
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     parasar (09-08-2019),  Power77 (09-09-2019)

  8. #115
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,612
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    BMAC has been considered "Aryan" to the core as an early Indo-European settlement and one of the most important Indo-Iranian archaeological and cultural stronghold for a long time.
    Max Muller associated the first imaginary Aryan Homeland probably in Bactria.
    Mallory, David Anthony, Lubotsky, Witzel all considered BMAC as decisive in the Indo-European formation and they thought the movement had been from Central Asia to Iran but genetic reality has shown BMAC was related from Iran to Central Asia. Indo-European is always found with types of Iranian/CHG components and not necessarily the Steppe component as BMAC has proven.
    "The BMAC now plays a very important role in the discussions of the archaeology of the early Indo-Europeans" - Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture - J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams, p.73
    The exclusive Ancient Iranian Y-DNA haplogroups are just another evidence of the complexity and extension of the PIE movements in Northern Iran/BMAC and the Caspian Sea where they could pass the Indo-European language, culture and values to new Admixed/Mestizo formations in the Volga/Yamnaya, Eastern Europe, Central Asia and India.
    BMAC people went extinct, while the direct descendants of the steppe people survive, as evidenced by the high frequencies of steppe R1a in Eastern Europe and India, and especially in Indo-Aryan upper castes.

    Way to go there with the lateral thinking and best use of ancient DNA!

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-08-2019),  Camulogène Rix (09-08-2019),  parasar (09-08-2019),  Power77 (09-08-2019),  tipirneni (09-09-2019)

  10. #116
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,981
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    The J1-ZS6592 cases from Geoksyur are very interesting, for two reasons. First because this is a very rare and basal branch of J1 that is both P58- and L136-, it is comparable to FGC6064, another basal branch which is directly upstream (PF4816-). There are grounds to suspect that one of the Sarmatian samples from Beslan (A80303) was ZS6592, a re-expansion from Central Asia with East Iranian groups seems likely and could explain the branch's presence in an Ingush individual (something similar happened with M365, a branch of FGC6064). Otherwise, this branch is mainly confined to the Gulf, mainly in Kuwait and Oman.

    Secondly, Geoksyur as well as other Chalcolithic sites along the Tedjen river seems to be a continuation of the earlier Jeitun culture, so while the presence of an ancient Iran_HG-type population in the Indus valley and its immediate surroundings is a distinct possibility, the existence of a population with a similar Iran_ChL or Iran_N-like profile was in Central Asia during the Mesolithic is doubtful, I certainly don't think the very substantial amount of ANE admixture in Caucasian and Iranian HGs warrants such a model. If anything, the existence of a separate Iran_HG-type population in the Indian subcontinent makes the Late Pleistocene Gulf Oasis a legitimate contender for that kind of ancestry (at least as much as the Zagros and other parts of the Iranian plateau are).
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 09-08-2019 at 01:53 AM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  11. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Generalissimo (09-08-2019),  J Man (09-08-2019),  Kelmendasi (09-08-2019),  Kulin (09-08-2019),  Power77 (09-08-2019),  Pribislav (09-08-2019),  Principe (09-08-2019),  Ruderico (09-08-2019),  Ryukendo (09-08-2019),  tipirneni (09-08-2019)

  12. #117
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    6,729

    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    BMAC has been considered "Aryan" to the core as an early Indo-European settlement and one of the most important Indo-Iranian archaeological and cultural stronghold for a long time.
    Max Muller associated the first imaginary Aryan Homeland probably in Bactria.
    Mallory, David Anthony, Lubotsky, Witzel all considered BMAC as decisive in the Indo-European formation and they thought the movement had been from Central Asia to Iran but genetic reality has shown BMAC was related from Iran to Central Asia. Indo-European is always found with types of Iranian/CHG components and not necessarily the Steppe component as BMAC has proven.
    "The BMAC now plays a very important role in the discussions of the archaeology of the early Indo-Europeans" - Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture - J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams, p.73
    The exclusive Ancient Iranian Y-DNA haplogroups are just another evidence of the complexity and extension of the PIE movements in Northern Iran/BMAC and the Caspian Sea where they could pass the Indo-European language, culture and values to new Admixed/Mestizo formations in the Volga/Yamnaya, Eastern Europe, Central Asia and India.
    Not to forget Sarianidi.
    "An example is the fire temple in the lower town of Mohenjo-daro; its basic plan comprises a ‘courtyard encompassed by corridors’”

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     BMG (09-08-2019),  Patarames (09-08-2019),  RCO (09-08-2019)

  14. #118
    Bronze Class Member
    Posts
    2,388
    Sex
    Location
    Krasnoyarsk
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Y6
    mtDNA (M)
    U7b
    mtDNA (P)
    G3a3

    Siberian Tatars Tajikistan
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    BMAC people went extinct, while the direct descendants of the steppe people survive, as evidenced by the high frequencies of steppe R1a in Eastern Europe and India, and especially in Indo-Aryan upper castes.

    Way to go there with the lateral thinking and best use of ancient DNA!
    If BMAC went extinct then what do SC/C Asians like Pashtuns, Tajiks, and Uzbeks owe their Iranian farmer-related ancestry to?

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Censored For This Useful Post:

     parasar (09-08-2019)

  16. #119
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    6,729

    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    If BMAC went extinct then what do SC/C Asians like Pashtuns, Tajiks, and Uzbeks owe their Iranian farmer-related ancestry to?
    It is nonsensical to think they went extinct. I don't know what Generalissimo is thinking, but BMAC was too widespread to just disappear.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     BMG (09-08-2019),  Censored (09-08-2019)

  18. #120
    Moderator
    Posts
    817
    Sex
    Location
    Sarai-Batu
    Ethnicity
    Bengali
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2a
    mtDNA (M)
    A11-a*

    Canada Bangladesh Jammu and Kashmir India Pakistan Sri Lanka
    BMAC obviously didn't 'disappear'. It had influenced the oncoming Indo-Iranians to a great degree in terms of both culture/rituals (e.g. Soma/Haoma drinking), language (many core Indo-Iranian vocabulary is borrowed from the BMAC), and of course genetics, as can be seen with early Indo-Iranians (e.g. Turkmenistan_IA who looks to be 45-50% BMAC-like). Many known BMAC uniparental markers have been passed down by the Indo-Iranians themselves who spread out towards South, Central and West Asia, with the Saka/Scythians migrating back to Europe. Thus, it is a gross misnomer to say BMAC has just vanished when it had rather been absorbed by the Indo-Iranians instead. Of course, as a distinct culture, it is now extinct yes, but its influence lives on.

    Also, I generally wouldn't say Steppe influence is greater on 'Indo-Aryan Upper Castes' since the traditional dichotomy of four-tier varna has never been followed in South Asia except in very rare cases. This is generally true for Brahmins in terms of Steppe, but other 'castes' on the other end of the hierarchy who traditionally served a more non-elite role can have equal or in cases greater Steppe-derived ancestry (e.g. Jats/Kamboj/Ror etc), than say groups considered higher up in the hierarchy (e.g. Baniya/Patidars etc). The South Asian Jati-system is much too complex for such simplified distinctions, and have to be explored more deeply to be understood firmly.

  19. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Kulin For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-08-2019),  BMG (09-08-2019),  Censored (09-08-2019),  client (09-08-2019),  Power77 (09-09-2019),  RCO (09-08-2019),  Reza (09-08-2019),  Ruderico (09-08-2019),  Sapporo (09-08-2019),  thorin (09-09-2019)

Page 12 of 45 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 270
    Last Post: 04-14-2019, 04:48 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-30-2018, 11:07 PM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-14-2018, 05:54 AM
  4. Steppe Pastoralists into Western Europe
    By A Norfolk L-M20 in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-23-2016, 11:50 AM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-21-2016, 06:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •