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Thread: R1b1a2a1 (L23+) - L23EE Type, Z2103+ Predicted_ [DYS-389II 31-33][DYS-464AB[14-15]

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    R1b1a2a1 (L23+) - L23EE Type, Z2103+ Predicted_ [DYS-389II 31-33][DYS-464AB[14-15]

    Predicted R1b Z2105*[R1b L584-,L277-]

    L23EE Predicted Z2103EE http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    ysearch
    http://www.ysearch.org/

    U98VT-
    The haplotype belongs to a male skeleton found at the 12th century cemetary of the church of St.Margaret, Podlazice, CZECH.[Year Born: Year Died: About 1180 Country of Origin Podlazice, Ceskoslovensko


    99SC2-Silesia, Poland
    B8632
    EMVRN
    G3W6V
    TMGGE-Ceskoslovensko
    3NT7K-Mestec - Chroustovic, Czechoslovakia
    DB9H7-Preußen/Prussia, Germany
    FGK82-Majer, Austro-Hungarian Empire
    P7U4J-Woloshka, Ukraine
    CRQ37
    Z7AF9-Réca (in Slovak), Réte (in Hungarian), Slovakia
    D3NTG-Split, Croatia
    DDHPK-Poland
    2M759-Czech Republic
    MK9TU-Silesia, Germany
    397MQ-Opanasyuk Ukraine
    2QVBT- Czech Republic
    YTH3T- Glommen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany
    QA28G- Mecin, Czech Republic
    ntphh-Malastow, Poland, Galicia/Galizien/Halychyna, Austria
    XWBWH-Frystak, Holesov, Czech Republic, Czech Republic
    CZ2K2-Posen/Pozna'n, Germany
    A7ERS- Krzemienica near Rzeszow, Poland
    A6HE2
    ADWBU-Perm, Russia
    24RJQ-Prague, Czech Republic
    9M8X4-Czech Republic
    KFEEH-Klopotovice, Czech Republic
    DECYS-Kölaby, Sweden
    QBWMZ-Germany
    KHBCK-Bukovina, Transylvania, Hungary
    Last edited by Silesian; 01-06-2014 at 06:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Predicted R1b Z2105*[R1b L584-,L277-]

    L23EE Predicted Z2103EE http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...h§ion=yresults

    ysearch
    http://www.ysearch.org/

    U98VT-
    The haplotype belongs to a male skeleton found at the 12th century cemetary of the church of St.Margaret, Podlazice, CZECH.[Year Born: Year Died: About 1180 Country of Origin Podlazice, Ceskoslovensko
    Good work. The STRs of the Podlažice skeleton are very similar to the Probasco and Oziemblowski groups. Having these two surname projects helps to see what wiggle room there is with the STRs. #N112689, a CTS7822 from Kursk that smal alerted us to, fits within that group too. So getting somebody with this haplotype to test and confirm CTS7822/Z2110 would be good. If we can get the skeleton to cooperate all the better.

    What will the name of this new modal haplotype be? The geography of this haplotype is striking. I'll throw out The Carpathian Modal Haplotype to get the ball rolling.
    Last edited by Joe B; 01-06-2014 at 08:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Predicted R1b Z2105*[R1b L584-,L277-]
    R1b1a2a1 (L23+) - L23EE Type, Z2103+ Predicted_ [DYS-389II 31-33][DYS-464AB[14-15]
    DYS-392 [13]


    L23EE Predicted Z2103EE http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...h§ion=yresults

    ysearch
    http://www.ysearch.org/

    U98VT-
    The haplotype belongs to a male skeleton found at the 12th century cemetary of the church of St.Margaret, Podlazice, CZECH.[Year Born: Year Died: About 1180 Country of Origin Podlazice, Ceskoslovensko


    Ukrainian, Russian, Satem language regions
    Polish,Czech, Satem language regions
    Centum, Satem, Iranian Uralic language regions


    99SC2-Silesia, Poland
    B8632Czech?
    EMVRNCzech?
    G3W6VCzech?
    TMGGE-Ceskoslovensko
    3NT7K-Mestec - Chroustovic, Czechoslovakia
    DB9H7-Preußen/Prussia, Germany
    FGK82-Majer, Austro-Hungarian Empire
    P7U4J-Woloshka, Ukraine
    CRQ37
    Z7AF9-Réca (in Slovak), Réte (in Hungarian), Slovakia
    D3NTG-Split, Croatia
    DDHPK-Poland
    2M759-Czech Republic
    MK9TU-Silesia, Germany
    397MQ-Opanasyuk Ukraine
    2QVBT- Czech Republic
    YTH3T- Glommen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany
    QA28G- Mecin, Czech Republic
    ntphh-Malastow, Poland, Galicia/Galizien/Halychyna, Austria
    XWBWH-Frystak, Holesov, Czech Republic, Czech Republic
    CZ2K2-Posen/Pozna'n, Germany
    A7ERS- Krzemienica near Rzeszow, Poland
    A6HE2
    ADWBU-Perm, Russia
    24RJQ-Prague, Czech Republic
    9M8X4-Czech Republic
    KFEEH-Klopotovice, Czech Republic
    DECYS-Kölaby, Sweden
    QBWMZ-Germany
    KHBCK-Bukovina, Transylvania, Hungary
    NMZ4A- Russia
    DHYHU-Russia

    R1b Z2105+ L277+DYS-392-[14]
    KJ8UQ-Uralsk, Kazakhstan

    R1b Z2105+ L584+
    PYFSG-Ukraine
    Last edited by Silesian; 01-08-2014 at 01:21 AM.

  6. #4
    I wonder if L23EE has something to do with the Catacomb culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    I wonder if L23EE has something to do with the Catacomb culture.
    I don't know, but Z2105* +L277+ L584+ can be found among around these branches of R1b also.

    R1b*343+R1b1 25+ M73+ z2105* L584+ L277+From Carpathians to Urals- Kazakhstan.

    R1b (R-M343)R1b* (that is R1b with no subsequent distinguishing SNP mutations) is extremely rare. The only population yet recorded with a definite significant proportion of R1b* are the Kurds of southeastern Kazakhstan with 13%.... However, more recently, a large study of Y-chromosome variation in Iran, revealed R1b* as high as 4.3% among Persian sub-populations
    Varzari found 3 cases in the Ukraine, in a study of 322 people from the Dniester-Carpathian region, who were P25 positive, but M269 negative.[24]
    R1b Khazakstan translplanted Kurds from Azeri/Iran http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults
    Native Siberians and their descendants - haplogroup R1b
    177944 Kolosov Russian Federation R1b1
    38996 Tobolzhyn Russian Federation R1b1a1
    38998 Azhermachev Russian Federation R1b

    Native Uralians R1b

    177945 Shipitsin Shipitsin Unknown Origin R1b1a2
    20014 Parshakov Parshakov
    Last edited by Silesian; 01-07-2014 at 07:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    D3NTG-Split, Croatia
    YTH3T- Glommen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany
    Invalid User ID

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    I wonder if L23EE has something to do with the Catacomb culture.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacomb_culture

    Update May 14-2014

    smal's tree


    And the Z2103 tree of the 1000 genomes (yellow) and Geno 2.0 (green) tested samples.

    [/QUOTE]

    Comparing region variance R-CTS7822


    R1b-CTS7822{L277-/L584-}[/I]






    TMRCA between kits in Polish project R-CTS7822+[176123-278024. GD-6/12]

    176123-Poland R-CTS7822 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 11 14 13 31
    8024-Poland-R-CTS9219 13 25 15 10 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 30


    Using Klad

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...two-haplotypes

    L, length of haplotype M, number of mutations between 2 hpt TMRCA, gen
    12 6 181
    25 0 0
    37 0 0
    67 0 0


    181 generations @30per generation= 5000+/-
    Last edited by Silesian; 05-14-2014 at 04:42 PM.

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    Canada Franco-Manitoban European Union Ottoman Empire Russia Imperial United States Grand Union
    Silesian, your personal autosomal results have no causal relationship to the spread of the yDNA subclade you are a member of.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    Is it possible that Bashkir R1b from the region in the map is also R-CTS7822 and not R-P312 ? Could it share R-CTS7822 with regions in the West ?



    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    79662 Bashkortostan, Baysari-Buryjan clan Russian Federation R-P312? 12 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 14 13
    3159888 Digor Ossetian Russian Federation R-L23 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 11 12 13 29 [L277-L584-]



    Since Bashkir sample is not fully snp/str tested and Digor sample is not R-CTS7822 tested. Only further testing can confirm; if both belong to the larger R-CTS7822 cluster further West.
    Last edited by Silesian; 05-14-2014 at 05:53 PM.

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    Silesian, you may be right. The predicted P312 might turn out to be CTS7822. FTDNA predicts (on a 25 STR marker base) that I am P312 since my Geno 2.0 results disappeared but I am CTS9219+ (and CTS7822+) indeed.

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