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Thread: Who are North Africans descended from?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camulogène Rix View Post
    How do you explain the Barcin_N strong variations amongst all these populations? the gap between Berber_Morocco and Berber_Tunisia is puzzling
    Modern Berbers are quite diverse though, so it isn't strange. Here's a simple PCA plot with 3 nodes, Iberia, Maghreb and the Levant

    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,55.2
    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
    Levant_Roman,1.2

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camulogène Rix View Post
    How do you explain the Barcin_N strong variations amongst all these populations? the gap between Berber_Morocco and Berber_Tunisia is puzzling
    I think this is due to Levantine_N, which gets inflated for some reason. I prefer using Natufians to better show the relatedness between Maghrebis: Anatolian_N related ancestry is slightly lower toward the East of the Maghreb, it's not as extreme as 45% in Tiznit to 7% in Sened.
    Also weird that the populations with the highest Yamnaya have the lowest Barcin_N.
    When using Early Neolithic IAM (mostly descended from Iberomaurusian but more Eurasian-admixed), the Yamnaya decreases in all Maghrebis, but still generally higher in the East.

    Also due to some Arabian ancestry in some individuals in some groups (in some Sened and Tunisians individuals for instance, and in Libyans obviously), the Barcin_N is further decreased.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Modern Berbers are quite diverse though, so it isn't strange. Here's a simple PCA plot with 3 nodes, Iberia, Maghreb and the Levant

    Here's where the early medieval (9th century, if I'm not mistaken) Guanche samples plot, for comparison.

    Last edited by Ruderico; 10-29-2019 at 05:28 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,55.2
    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
    Levant_Roman,1.2

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camulogène Rix View Post
    How do you explain the Barcin_N strong variations amongst all these populations? the gap between Berber_Morocco and Berber_Tunisia is puzzling
    Levant_N is close to Natufian, and is typified by Arabians, no?

    I am not surprised Tunisia has more of such ancestry, by far, than do Moroccans and Algerians.

  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Here's where the early medieval (9th century, if I'm not mistaken) Guanche samples plot, for comparison.

    Which Berber groups were used for each country ?

  9. #16
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    I have no idea, you'll have to ask David himself
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,55.2
    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
    Levant_Roman,1.2

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  11. #17
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    Berber samples in G25 are from Arauna et al. 2017 study : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5644363/

    Berber_Algeria: Timimoun
    Berber_MAR_ERR: Errachidia
    Berber_MAR_TIZ: Tiznit
    Berber_Tunisia_Chen: Chenini
    Berber_Tunisia_Sen: Sened

    "Algerian" individuals are from city of Algiers so probably a mix of multiple régions from Algeria (with many of them being very likely Kabyles).
    Last edited by E_M81_I3A; 11-02-2019 at 11:13 AM.
    G25 scaled:Hidden Content Hidden Content
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    "The findings of the ancient DNA revolution suggest that the mixtures will continue. Mixture is fundamental to who we are, and we need to embrace it", David Reich

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    They are clearly predominantly Anatolian Neolithic, Mesolithic Iberomaurusian with Natufian-like ancestry, some obvious Yamnaya/steppe, some SSA, additional extra-Eastern Mediterranean ancestry.

    G25 of a Southern Moroccan .


    G25 of a North Moroccan Riffian.


    G25 of a Tunisian woman.


    G25 of a Darija speaking Eastern Algerian


    G25 of an Algerian Kabyle.


    G25 1/2 Algerian, 1/4 South Tunisian 1/8 Kabyle 1/8 French



    G25 of a South Moroccan Berber from Anti - Atlas.
    Last edited by Bealfire; 11-02-2019 at 02:34 AM.

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    Here the G25 of a Sicilian who appears to show 15% Levantine and 10% North African admixtures.


  16. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by E_M81_I3A View Post
    Berber samples in G25 are from Arauna et al. 2017 study : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5644363/

    Berber_Algeria: Timimoun
    Berber_MAR_ERR: Errachidia
    Berber_MAR_TIZ: Tiznit
    Berber_Tunisia_Chen: Chenini
    Berber_Tunisia_Sen: Sened
    I had a doubt about that, the PCA is somehow weird, Timimoum are strongly shifted toward Subsaharan Africa, they can't be closer to Eurasians than the other Berbers (Berber Algeria in the PCA).
    I was thinking about Mozabites, but these aren't that "Eastern" shifted and should be in line with Moroccan southern Berbers + minor eastern shift.
    Tunisian Berbers are in line with their results, we can clearly see 2 groups, Chenini closer to Moroccans, and Send shifted towards East.

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