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Thread: Jews and J-L70

  1. #1
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    Jews and J-L70

    Just thought that I should post everything that I know about Jews and J-L70 in a thread for anyone who is interested.

    Based off the data of jewishdna.net, around 11%-12% of all Ashkenazi J2s belong to J-L70. This makes it the third largest J2 subclade amongst Ashkenazi Jews – behind J-L556 (~37%) and J-L210 (~19%) – and the largest subclade under J-L24. Downstream of J-L70, Ashkenazi Jews typically belong to PF5456 (CTS36061) or P244.2.

    J-L70 also appears to have a somewhat large Sephardic Jewish presence. Based on the data from the FTDNA J-L24 Group, there are Sephardic Jews from the Balkans (Bulgaria), Spain and Portugal as well as Crypto-Jews from the New World who belong to J-L70. I even came across an individual who originally believed his paternal line was Italian, only to discover that it was actually Jewish - perhaps his lineage is Italqi or maybe Sephardi?

    Additionally, J-L70 (subclade: J-M318) has been found amongst Libyan Jews at a frequency of 5%. Similarly, J-L70 (J-M318) has been found amongst the Djerban Cohanim (priests). What’s interesting about these Cohanim, is that they are the direct descendants of the priests of the first Beit HaMikdash (Jewish/Israelite Temple).

    A Romaniote (Greek Jew) has also been found to belong to J-L70. It also appears (to me) that a Lebanese Jew might belong to J-L70 (due to the Hebrew name in the Lebanon-Syria DNA Project). On jewishdna.net, there is also a Mizrahi sample that is believed to belong to J-L70.

    Additionally, around 53% of the P244.2 (downstream of L70) samples from jewishdna.net were Cohanim and J-L70 is also present in the Zadokite Cohanim DNA Project.

    However, I noticed that Eupedia believes that J-L70 is Italic in origin? Surely this does not apply to Jews, whose paternal lineages are from the Levant - and further supported by the Cohen presence?

    Although, I have come across individuals who are certain that it's from the Levant/Southern Anatolia:

    “it did spread early to Turkey and the Levant where subclades Z387 and L70 (distinguished in part by DYS 391=9) likely arose” (http://m172.blogspot.com/)

    “Kamel Al Gazzah indicated that PF4888/PF5401 has an Ashkenazi component while F3133 a Sephardi component. However, interestingly, we observe that the Z387 clade has both Ashkenazi and Sephardi components” (http://the-j2-l24-clade.blogspot.com/)

    “In fact when I check the published 9 marker haplotypes (6 out 86 random samples in Apulia are L24(M530)) 3 of them (50%) are very clear J-L70 haplotypes and J-L70 appears to have it's origin in Southern Turkey or Northern Syria about 3000 to 4000 years ago (my own estimate)” (http://the-j2-l24-clade.blogspot.com)

    Additionally, I found this off Eupedia:

    “Deeper subclades were not tested, but according to the FTDNA Project, J2a1h2a1-L70 appears to be the most common subclade in Lebanon.” (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/archiv...p/t-28934.html)
    I wonder if this statement is still true?

    It seems J-L70s highest frequency is in Southern Anatolia at around 12% (Underhill King data)

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/j-l24-y-dna/about
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    https://jewishdna.net/AB-506.html
    https://jewishdna.net/Ashkenazi-Cohen.html
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 11-03-2019 at 04:38 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Eupedia has been garbage for a while. It labels J-Z467 as European. It also lists Eastern Europeans for one of the populations associated with HV1b2, but all the Eastern Europeans with it descend from Jews.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: R-A11720, J-FGC21085, E-FGC56023

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    Most J2 is Levantine or Anatolian in origin. I don't know if you could call any J2 Italic; I think most of the J2 in Italy came from Greek colonization or Illyrians in the Roman soldiery. The neat thing about Jewish DNA studies is that-especially with the bottleneck with the Ashkenazim-there are many dedicated clades where you can be almost certain that the person is a Jew or has an unknown Jewish male-line ancestor (which I know is irrelevant in Jewish law, where it goes through the female line; this is more difficult for most people but at least I know mine-my female line origin is Ireland, and there are several Jewish-specific mtdna clades)

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    J-L70 has also been found among an Azerbaijani Jew and Bukharan Jews. No SNP tests have been done yet as far as I know.
    Haven't seen any convincing evidence to suggest it being an "Italic" branch. It seems more prevalent in the Near East, found among Armenians and Turks in particular.
    "To know nothing of what happened before you were born is to remain forever a child" ― Marcus Tullius Cicero

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbdoNumen View Post
    J-L70 has also been found among an Azerbaijani Jew and Bukharan Jews. No SNP tests have been done yet as far as I know.
    Haven't seen any convincing evidence to suggest it being an "Italic" branch. It seems more prevalent in the Near East, found among Armenians and Turks in particular.
    Do you have any links pertaining to the Azerbaijani and Bukharan Jews? That's very interesting.

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    Europedia is really outdated. Some of the info on their J2 page is very old and off the mark.

    The paragraph text in Europedia hypothesizing J-Z435 being a roman marker of "italic" origin is especially off the mark given observations of PF5456 and M318 etc...

    L70 is levantine and many of the subclades are too, certainly PF5456 and I would hazard a guess that it was a component of ancient israelites and other neighbouring populations in the levant.

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    An update of sorts:
    - A Tunisian Jew has been found to be J-PF5456
    - An individual of Sephardic roots from Morocco and Spain is J-PF5456
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    An update of sorts:
    - A Tunisian Jew has been found to be J-PF5456
    - An individual of Sephardic roots from Morocco and Spain is J-PF5456
    jewishdna.net lists someone from Afghanistan under PF5456, but I can't find him. Can you?
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: R-A11720, J-FGC21085, E-FGC56023

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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    jewishdna.net lists someone from Afghanistan under PF5456, but I can't find him. Can you?
    I have seen that but I'm not sure where they got it from. I certainly can't find him.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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    Update 2: I found a Palestinian on YouTube who belongs to J-L70.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.2733% / 0.02273307
    37.6 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    17.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    7.8 DEU_MA
    7.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    6.4 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.6 PAK_Barikot_H
    0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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