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Thread: Using two sisters and a son/nephew to find hidden ancestries

  1. #1
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    Using two sisters and a son/nephew to find hidden ancestries

    Using two sisters to find hidden ancestries.
    My mother, my aunt and I have all taken DNA tests. However, my mother and I took 23andMe, while my aunt took an Ancestry DNA test. I have uploaded all of our DNA to GEDmatch and I am curious as to the differences I see in my mother and aunt using the Eurogenes calculators. I am especially interested in the common ancestries they are showing for which the family has no paper trail.
    Five ancestries show up repeatedly for both my mother and my aunt for which I have never found a paper trail. These are Lebanese Christian, Lebanese Muslim, Orcadian, variants of Sephardic Jewish and variants of Spanish.
    Orcadian shows up A LOT, both for my mother and my aunt. My theory is that this must come from their fatherís side because I have a paper trail on part of his family going WAY BACK to medieval England.
    The Lebanese is weird in that Lebanese Christian shows up for my mother while Lebanese Muslim shows up for my aunt. Keep in mind that we are Sicilian on my maternal grandmotherís side and I have never found a paper trail there that leads out of Sicily, so I donít know if the Lebanese and Jewish DNA, for instance, could be distant Middle Eastern DNA (due to the extremely diverse history of Sicily) pinging these populations as a proxy.
    As for Sephardic Jewish, it shows up a lot in my motherís K13 Oracle 2:
    1 59.3% Southwest_English + 40.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.93
    2 57.1% West_Scottish + 42.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.04
    3 57.3% Irish + 42.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.25
    4 62.7% Southwest_English + 37.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.57
    5 69.6% Southwest_English + 30.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.76
    6 60.6% West_Scottish + 39.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.84
    7 69.1% Southwest_English + 30.9% Samaritan @ 3.86
    8 66% Southwest_English + 34% Cyprian @ 3.91
    9 52.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 47.8% Southwest_English @ 3.94
    10 58% Orcadian + 42% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.99
    11 83.5% French + 16.5% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.99
    12 57.7% West_Scottish + 42.3% Italian_Jewish @ 4
    13 54.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 45.5% West_Scottish @ 4
    14 83.4% French + 16.6% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.03
    15 60.8% Irish + 39.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.04
    16 66.8% Southwest_English + 33.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.06
    17 63.1% Southwest_English + 36.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.06
    18 60.7% Southeast_English + 39.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.09
    19 53.5% West_Scottish + 46.5% South_Italian @ 4.09
    20 60% Southwest_English + 40% Italian_Jewish @ 4.13

    And Kurdish Jewish shows up in the top five results for her K13 Oracle 4:

    1 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.919453
    2 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 2.950162
    3 Kurdish_Jewish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.040684
    4 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.072579
    5 Kurdish_Jewish + Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 3.077009

    However, as you can tell, all of these have distances of more than 2.00.

    For my aunt, her K13 Oracle 2 results donít have anywhere near the presence of Jewish population groups like those of my mother. Only three of my auntís K13 Oracle 2 combos include Jewish. However, she still has 7/20 of the groupings including a variant of Jewish in K15 Oracle 2. What may be even more convincing however is that pesky Orcadian DNA. It shows up again in my auntís K15 Oracle 2.

    For me, Lebanese Muslim barely shows up in my K13 Oracle 2 results. It is included as a small percentage in the last result. In fact, my K13 Oracle 2 results seem to be all over the place:

    1 66% Southwest_English + 34% Bulgarian @ 2.07
    2 62.5% Southwest_English + 37.5% Romanian @ 2.11
    3 68.8% Irish + 31.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.12
    4 96.1% West_German + 3.9% Moroccan @ 2.25
    5 97.1% West_German + 2.9% Saudi @ 2.26
    6 96.8% West_German + 3.2% Bedouin @ 2.3
    7 66.7% North_German + 33.3% North_Italian @ 2.35
    8 96.4% West_German + 3.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.35
    9 96.4% West_German + 3.6% Algerian @ 2.37
    10 96.9% West_German + 3.1% Syrian @ 2.39
    11 96.6% West_German + 3.4% Tunisian @ 2.4
    12 97.1% West_German + 2.9% Egyptian @ 2.42
    13 67.8% West_Scottish + 32.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.42
    14 97.1% West_German + 2.9% Jordanian @ 2.43
    15 95.5% West_German + 4.5% East_Sicilian @ 2.43
    16 95.4% West_German + 4.6% Central_Greek @ 2.44
    17 94.6% South_Dutch + 5.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.45
    18 96.7% West_German + 3.3% Turkish @ 2.45
    19 97.3% West_German + 2.7% Samaritan @ 2.45
    20 97.1% West_German + 2.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.46

    Spaniard doesnít show up at all in mine except in single population sharing at distances of more than 14 and the only Jewish suggestion is Georgian Jewish at 5.4% in Result 17.

    This raises a number of questions:

    Does Eurogenes struggle with differentiating between Sicilian DNA and Sephardic Jewish DNA? If so, how long has this been going on and why is it happening?

    To this day, the Orkney Islands have a population of less than 30,000. I would think this small population would have some genetic markers. Given this, do the Orcadian results indicate a high likelihood of ancestry originating from Orkney?

    Why would two sisters have such different results? Could the difference between 23andme and Ancestry have something to do with it?

    Are these Jewish and Lebanese population groups often ďproxiesĒ for other Middle Eastern ethnicities? In other words, are the real indications actually broader than the labels given here?

    Was the Jewish population in Sicily before the expulsion of 1493 genetically distant enough from the rest of the islandís population to differentiate it in a personís DNA 500 years later?

    Is it a common problem that Sicilians show false positive results for admixtures of Jewish origin?

    Are Spanish results common in Oracle for Sicilian customers?

    How big are these reference population datasets and are they even reliable in the first place when it comes to GEDmatch admixtures? Is there somewhere I can get this technical information?

    I hope some of you know a little more about these things and how to make actual meaning of these results than I do.

    Thank you.

    P.S. I didnít post all of the results here because I was afraid it would be confusing and create a major TL;DR situation. If youíre interested or think they would help you answer my questions, just ask.

  2. #2
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    What I found was that Orcadian was not to be taken literally. I got that too, (and my maternal relatives) but I was advised on this Forum that it just means North Britain as opposed to southern Britain. I just depends where the references are from.
    I am no expert on Spanish or Jewish roots, but after the Christian Spanish reconquered Spain the Jews had to leave and southern Italy was one destination they found to settle. So all of those bits may just indicate southern Italy. Others are much more informed about this. Try reading on of the threads on ancient DNA in Italy to see who?
    Image ďWestray wifieĒ replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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