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Thread: I1 in Tuscany/Italy

  1. #1
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    I1 in Tuscany/Italy

    Hello, this is my first post. My father is IZ58 and we are from Florence in Tuscany. My eldest known paternal ancestor was born in Florence in 1680.
    Any thoughts? Is there anyone else here from Tuscany? Or Italy? Thank you

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  3. #2
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    Welcome to the Anthrogenica forums. I-Z58 is one of the two largest subclades of the overall I1 haplogroup, and is currently dated to between 4000 and 5100 years ago, so common ancestors on the Y line were quite some time ago and I-Z58 has a relatively wide dispersion geographically. It's likely that your father is also part of a more refined subclade underneath I-Z58, but perhaps the DNA test he took was didn't cover the relevant SNPs to determine that. You can take a look at the subclades below I-Z58 in the YFull tree here and the flags next to sample names can give you an idea about how widespread the geographic distribution encompasses: yfull.com/tree/I-Z58/ - it looks like there are 10 folks listing Italy on the YFull tree that are downstream of I-Z58, some with a more refined location (for example, Modena or Avellino) if you hover the cursor over the Italian flag. There is also the FamilyTreeDNA public haplotree here https://www.familytreedna.com/public...e/I;name=I-Z58 and this lists 22 folks who list Italy as their paternal origin and are tested to I-Z58 or downstream of that. There are 4696 confirmed I-Z58 in FTDNA's database, so the 22 Italians comprise 0.88% of that. However, not everyone tests to that level and may just show as I1 or I-M253.
    I1 isn't especially common in Italy but it's not unknown either. Eupedia has a nice list of haplogroup distribution per country and some regions, but in some cases the sample size is small and may not be representative https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml - as you can see, most common Y-DNA haplogroup in Italy is R1b, in common with most of Western Europe, followed by J2, E1b1b and G as the next most common. Eupedia has I1 at 4.5% in Italy.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cri View Post
    Hello, this is my first post. My father is IZ58 and we are from Florence in Tuscany. My eldest known paternal ancestor was born in Florence in 1680.
    Any thoughts? Is there anyone else here from Tuscany? Or Italy? Thank you
    Welcome. A bit off topic. But have you done a autosomal test yourself?
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 1.7288% / 0.01728791 | R3P
    51.6 VK2020_IRL_Eyrephort_VA = Germanic
    37.4 Levant_LBN_MA_o6 = South Euro
    11.0 RUS_Chalmny-Varre = Saami

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  7. #4
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    Hi Cri,
    I live and I am originally from Bologna.
    For some years now I have been studying the population of the Tuscan-Emilian Apennines. In our territory I found several people belonging to I-Z58. With which company did your father take the test?

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Welcome to the Anthrogenica forums. I-Z58 is one of the two largest subclades of the overall I1 haplogroup, and is currently dated to between 4000 and 5100 years ago, so common ancestors on the Y line were quite some time ago and I-Z58 has a relatively wide dispersion geographically. It's likely that your father is also part of a more refined subclade underneath I-Z58, but perhaps the DNA test he took was didn't cover the relevant SNPs to determine that. You can take a look at the subclades below I-Z58 in the YFull tree here and the flags next to sample names can give you an idea about how widespread the geographic distribution encompasses: yfull.com/tree/I-Z58/ - it looks like there are 10 folks listing Italy on the YFull tree that are downstream of I-Z58, some with a more refined location (for example, Modena or Avellino) if you hover the cursor over the Italian flag. There is also the FamilyTreeDNA public haplotree here https://www.familytreedna.com/public...e/I;name=I-Z58 and this lists 22 folks who list Italy as their paternal origin and are tested to I-Z58 or downstream of that. There are 4696 confirmed I-Z58 in FTDNA's database, so the 22 Italians comprise 0.88% of that. However, not everyone tests to that level and may just show as I1 or I-M253.
    I1 isn't especially common in Italy but it's not unknown either. Eupedia has a nice list of haplogroup distribution per country and some regions, but in some cases the sample size is small and may not be representative https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml - as you can see, most common Y-DNA haplogroup in Italy is R1b, in common with most of Western Europe, followed by J2, E1b1b and G as the next most common. Eupedia has I1 at 4.5% in Italy.
    Thank you deadly77! This is very helpful. My father tested with Ftdna, the Y-37marker test and he doesn't have any matches. Only 9 matches at 12, 1 from Russia, 2 from Sweden, 1 from Scotland and the others from USA. Now I'm waiting for the results of the Z58 SNP pack that should arrive soon.

  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    Welcome. A bit off topic. But have you done a autosomal test yourself?
    Thank you Nino90!
    Yes I did and so my mother and my father.

  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acque agitate View Post
    Hi Cri,
    I live and I am originally from Bologna.
    For some years now I have been studying the population of the Tuscan-Emilian Apennines. In our territory I found several people belonging to I-Z58. With which company did your father take the test?
    Hi, Acque agitate!
    I'm very interested in your studies, for the haplogroup I and also because my paternal grandmother is from Marradi and my maternal great grandmother was from Modigliana, both in the Alto Mugello on the Apennines, at the border with Romagna. In fact that area is called Romagna Toscana.
    He tested with Ftdna, the Y37, but I'm waiting for the Z58 SNP pack results.

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  13. #8
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    "Piero Tatti Niccolai d. 1757 Firenze" is your line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cri View Post
    Hi, Acque agitate!
    I'm very interested in your studies, for the haplogroup I and also because my paternal grandmother is from Marradi and my maternal great grandmother was from Modigliana, both in the Alto Mugello on the Apennines, at the border with Romagna. In fact that area is called Romagna Toscana.
    He tested with Ftdna, the Y37, but I'm waiting for the Z58 SNP pack results.

  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acque agitate View Post
    "Piero Tatti Niccolai d. 1757 Firenze" is your line?
    Yes, it is!

  15. #10
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    Ciao Cri,
    If I understood correctly your father performed the test at FtDna. As a first test he performed the test called Y37 and then he did the Pack I-58 (of which he is waiting for the results).
    For the future (maybe some other relative of yours wants to take the test) I advise against following the procedure your father has done.
    Performing this whole series of tests involves an expense slightly lower than the cost of the complete test called Big Y700. The result you get is, however, much lower (with the Big Y700 you also discover your private snp and therefore your story from the night of time up to now).
    This is even more true for the people from our Apennines who very often belong to unknown male lines in other areas, lines that are therefore not tested by the Packs. The risk is to spend a sum slightly less than the cost of the Big Y700, obtaining no result. In the last 2 years many of my friends have tested themselves with similar tests (Yseq) and unfortunately they have turned negative to everything, regardless of their haplogroup (R1b, G2a, J2a, J2b, etc.).

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