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Thread: Rumours of M269 hunters in north-central European Russia

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    I offered to put this behind us on post 58 and you chose not to accept my fig leaf. So I assume you won’t stop coming at me until I say something I’ve already said more than once.

    I have stated in post 51 and 58 that the site is also located north and northeast of the Steppe. That is true and what said above is also true.

    So I offer you another fig leaf to end this pointless discussion. If not then we can keep going round and round.

    Your call.
    Your tone says something else. I've said what I have to say and why I said it.

    I'm not sure why you took issue with my original statement that Sahktysh is not northwest of the steppe, especially since I did not quote you, and, besides, it's not northwest of the steppe, since there's a whole lot of the steppe southwest of it.

    That last bit shouldn't trouble you, since, as you say

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893
    I have stated in post 51 and 58 that the site is also located north and northeast of the Steppe.
    Guess we're good.
    Last edited by rms2; 11-09-2019 at 02:24 AM.
     


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  2. #72
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    Understand that R1b>L51>L151 in Western Europe has Steppe ancestry per all the tested ancient dna samples from various sites.

    Is that because L51 originated from the Steppes or because it acquired steppe ancestry on its way to Western Europe?

    I know that the former view is the most common expressed on this site for some time, but if L51 is from Corded Ware, wasn't Corded Ware found mostly North of the Steppe in the Forest areas? If so then how did it get Steppe ancestry?

    Is the current thinking, that it was in the Steppe, then it went into the Forest zone? I think Coldmountains is of this belief.

    Are we able to rule out that it didnít originate in the Forest zone and got Steppe input at a later date before heading into Western Europe? If so how are we able to confidently rule out this option.

    Iím agnostic on this. Just trying to get up to speed on the latest thinking.
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  3. #73
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    As I understand it, steppe dna or steppe ancestry just means autosomal proximity to Yamnaya and is basically the combination of EHG and CHG. If the ancestors of Corded Ware were foragers north of the steppe, and were EHG, then their descendants would have had to acquire CHG in the right proportion to resemble Yamnaya.

    I think there was a big pool of people mixing in and around the steppe. It's going to be tough to say who was first to form the steppe dna mix.
     


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    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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     MitchellSince1893 (11-09-2019)

  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Understand that R1b>L51>L151 in Western Europe has Steppe ancestry per all the tested ancient dna samples from various sites.

    Is that because L51 originated from the Steppes or because it acquired steppe ancestry on its way to Western Europe?

    I know that the former view is the most common expressed on this site for some time, but if L51 is from Corded Ware, wasn't Corded Ware found mostly North of the Steppe in the Forest areas? If so then how did it get Steppe ancestry?

    Is the current thinking, that it was in the Steppe, then it went into the Forest zone? I think Coldmountains is of this belief.

    Are we able to rule out that it didn’t originate in the Forest zone and got Steppe input at a later date before heading into Western Europe? If so how are we able to confidently rule out this option.

    I’m agnostic on this. Just trying to get up to speed on the latest thinking.
    well neither R1a-M417 and R1a-L51 are ultimately from the forest zone in my opiniom. Proto-PIE had contact with Proto-Finno-Ugrians in the east and Proto-Caucasians in the south. Also CHG was already very early in PIEs and most early Indo-Europeans look like they have ancestry from Progress_Eneolithic-like people. For example before Sredny Stog in Ukraine HGs lacked CHG and were EHG/SHG-like in Ukraine
    So it looks like Sredny Stog arrived from the east.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog)> R-L657> R-Y4 (Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun/Indo-Aryan)

    mtdna: H28 (Globular Amphora, Bronze Age Latvia) > H28a (Ruthenian)

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  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Forgive me for being an old timer, but, before that, everyone assumed R1a was the PIE y haplogroup par excellence, while R1b was Basque-ing in the sunshine among the grapevines and olive orchards of Iberia.

    Where R1a and R1b were before PIE even existed isn't all that big a deal, except for the fact that they were both in the general vicinity of the steppe.
    According to some "experts" we must soon claim a Uralic origin of R1b-L51 We only need now to find R1a in Megalithic West Europe to go full circle lol.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog)> R-L657> R-Y4 (Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun/Indo-Aryan)

    mtdna: H28 (Globular Amphora, Bronze Age Latvia) > H28a (Ruthenian)

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  9. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Q, R1a(xM417), I2.

    No N.
    Do you know what kind of I2 is it?

  10. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravetti View Post
    Do you know what kind of I2 is it?
    Same as in Globular Amphora and Iron Gates.

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  12. #78
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    the northwest russian R1b are just m269 and not L51 ?

  13. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieu View Post
    the northwest russian R1b are just m269 and not L51 ?
    There might be L51 there, but we have to wait and see when the samples are released.

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  15. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Same as in Globular Amphora and Iron Gates.
    That is a deal as big as the possible finding over there of an R1b L51. So megalithic europeans reached all the way to the Moscow region? Just asking.

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