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Thread: Ancient Rome: A genetic crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Yeah, sample R19 from Ripabianca di Monterado. Seems to be L26+, not sure if it's positive for anything under L26 though.
    Probably belongs to Z6057 which was found in Neolithic Hungary
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Raw sequencing data will be available from ENA accession no. PRJEB32566. I don't get a result when I search on PRJEB32566 at https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena
    Something is up on NCBI: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bioproject/PRJEB32566

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    2) R116, Via Paisiello, 0-200CE (Imperial Age) - J-Z631+
    Where do you see that this sample is J-Z631+ ?

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  7. #34
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    Finally this paper is out !Few quick observations:
    1. By Imperial Roman times, 40% of haplogroups are associated as East Med, 28% as Near Eastern.
    2. Two samples from the IA also seem to overlap with the Imperial Roman samples. Incidentally, in the time line, under Republican Era, there seem to have been only 2 samples.
    3. The fact that by early Imperial Era, Romans already plot were they did - ie highly shifted towards the East Med and Near East, to me points out that this shift started in late Republican Era, ie Pyrrhic War.

    Basically Romans started out like Sardinians then North Italian-like, then by late Republican Era and early Imperial Era Magna Graecians and then the Eastern provinces drastically changed the demographics.

    Then later on Northern migration shifted them to where they are today.
    Last edited by Erikl86; 11-07-2019 at 09:27 PM.
    Check out my Hidden Content

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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    Only one male Etruscan sample and it belongs to J-M12. In contrast, there are five Latini tribe males and they are overwhelmingly M269:

    T-L208
    R-PF7589
    R-P312
    R-P312
    R-P311
    R-M269

    It will be interesting to see if this will be the trend with more samples.
    And the deathblow to the now infamous Italian Refugium:

    The Iron Age witnessed a striking shift in the distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroups compared to
    previous periods, indicative of large-scale immigration before the Iron Age (our dataset did not contain
    any Bronze Age individual from central Italy). Five of the seven male individuals in this time period
    belong to the R-M269 (R1b1a2) group, which is not observed the nine earlier male samples. Unlike the
    general R-M343 (R1b) haplogroup, the R-M269 subgroup is thought to be tightly associated with Stepperelated
    ancestry, as it was absent in ancient individuals in western Europe before 3,000 BCE but found in
    all Bronze Age Yamnaya males from Russia (c. 3,500-3,000 BCE) (10), >90% males associated with the
    Beaker-complex in Bronze Age Britain (c. 2,700-2,500) (72) and nearly 100% males in Iberia after 2,000
    BCE (18). Therefore, the appearance of R-M269 at high frequency (5 out of 7) in central Italy is
    consistent with the arrival of Steppe ancestry detected based on autosomal SNPs (Fig. 2), via migration of
    Steppe pastoralists or intermediary populations in the preceding Bronze Age.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    While not a really big deal, anyone knows which Jewish population falls there under the "Jewish"? As it doesn't seem to correspond with AJs. BTW besides paternal haplogroups did they also check maternal ones?
    I can be certain of one thing, that I know nothing.

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  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Where do you see that this sample is J-Z631+ ?
    It is labelled as such on the Excel spreadsheet. You should be able to access it here https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...b-figures-data.
    Ftdna MyOrigins 2.0: 100% SE European

    23andme: 100% Balkan

    Geneplaza K25: 100% Greek-Albanian

    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Then later on Northern migration shifted them to where they are today.
    Razib thought that it was rather resurgence of the rural locals after cities (where East Med influence had to be the strongest) died out:



    ^^^
    Rome's (city) population over time:


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  17. #39
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    the theory (mine fav.) of balkan/pannonian influx in the BA/IA period for the italic speakers seems a bit busted in which R1(930-836calBC) is the only sample from a clear 'balkan' context overlapping modern north-italy wheras all other IA samples differ in overlapping modern spain except R850(T-L208) from the corearea of the rutuli overlapping the east-med continuum wheras compatriot R851(P-311) conventionally iberian-like, makes me wonder if the legends of an aeneas or evander might just have some merits afterall, but seriously just some; overall i think this favors the intermediate bell-beakers, in the manner of EBA I2478 from parma, over a pannonian/balkan influx as the italic speaking stock

    very disappointing that only two samples overlap the republican period and i cant find neither R345/R437 on the PCA S27 only R436 from the imp. period; intersting is also that not only rome and vicinity had an east-med pull/influx in the imperial 27BC-300AD also other regions in R835(J-P58)/R836
    Last edited by alexfritz; 11-07-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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  19. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Razib thought that it was rather resurgence of the rural locals after cities (where East Med influence had to be the strongest) died out:



    ^^^
    Population of Rome (city) over time:

    That doesn't change the fact that it's very possible that the population from inland and remote areas have retained Italic DNA ! I've found evidences for Cosenza but maybe they exist in other provinces !
    Last edited by Genetique; 11-07-2019 at 09:38 PM.

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