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Thread: Ancient Rome: A genetic crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean

  1. #1301
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    Israel Jerusalem
    Quote Originally Posted by nntaleb View Post
    As a statistician I am looking at the presence of coincidences. This friend of mine is from Northern Lebanon, an area where there are plenty of Roman temples. There are very few J2b1s in the Levant, even less in the Middle East and Egypt (1/8 of the concentration in Serbia/Albania, Macedonia, Western Cyprus and Crete). Attested Levantine presence is from Ain Gazal and Sidon, 2700 & 1900 years before that. R50 appears to be a patrician (at least) to be interred in the grounds of the Centocelle villa, not a soldier, slave or migrant.
    So the question is: would R50 be a close family member (so to speak)?
    Thanks.
    [Also in סוף מערב, with same libi bi mizrach]
    What you're seeing is closer to the result of a branching process, so unless your friend shares a sufficiently close node to the European samples, the relative frequency of these samples in J2b1 isn't very informative in his case. As for Roman influence - it was all over the Levant.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  3. #1302
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    Republic of Venice Italy Veneto Italy Tuscany Italy 1861-1946
    Outside of southern France and Iberia the Roman influence might be close to 0

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  5. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    Outside of southern France and Iberia the Roman influence might be close to 0
    How could that be the case though? There were thousands of Roman soldiers on the Rhine-Danube limes alone at any point in time and the limes survived for centuries, sure they used locals or Germans all the time but any Southern soldier there, which there must have been many still, would have had some influence throughout the 3-4 centuries when the limes existed. And that's just soldiers.

  6. #1304
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    Israel Jerusalem Star of David Israel South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    Outside of southern France and Iberia the Roman influence might be close to 0
    I don't think that's entirely true. An example, Rome was responsible for the spread of J-L70 into Germanic Europe and the British Isles (for non-Jewish males - since it's of Levantine origin, Jews likely got it from Canaanites).
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 1.9563% / 0.01956275
    33.6 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
    18.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    11.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    10.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA
    9.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    8.4 FRA_IA
    7.6 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    1.2 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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  8. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel90 View Post
    Outside of southern France and Iberia the Roman influence might be close to 0
    If you mean Roman genetic influence in the narrow sense from Central Italy, I certainly agree, but Roman soldiers including auxiliary troops came from various areas across the Empire especially after the First Century AD/CE. Syrian troops are recorded on Hadrian's Wall in northernmost England.

    Also Levantine (Syrian and Jewish) traders were all over the Empire.
    Last edited by Cascio; 09-03-2020 at 10:48 AM.

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  10. #1306
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    T1a1

    Republic of Venice Italy Veneto Italy Tuscany Italy 1861-1946
    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    I don't think that's entirely true. An example, Rome was responsible for the spread of J-L70 into Germanic Europe and the British Isles (for non-Jewish males - since it's of Levantine origin, Jews likely got it from Canaanites).
    I agree, but I was saying Roman in the sense of Italics dna, and overall the impact would be still be low in general even if you consider the broader definition. And if you think about the DEU_MA samples that we have, there is clearly a movement of people from the south, but I don't know how much that has to do with Romans really.
    Last edited by Ariel90; 09-03-2020 at 05:33 PM.

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  12. #1307
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    R1b - CTS1450-Y23493
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    H30a

    Italy Italy
    Many thanks for posting this PCA. Are you skilled at interpreting its implications for migrations into S. Italy?
    Lancer

  13. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    Is it possible to determine if the E-V13's are CTS5856 or E-PH1246?
    R107 being now placed on YFull:
    https://yfull.com/tree/E-Z38770*/

    Together with an Ukrainian sample.

    With ph2ters new Medieval G25:
    Target: ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR107
    Distance: 1.9859% / 0.01985923
    51.4 TRANSALPINE-ROMAN
    17.0 GRECO-ROMAN
    14.4 LEVANTINE
    5.6 BALTIC
    4.0 SARDINIAN
    3.2 TARTESSIAN
    2.4 LUSITANIAN
    1.4 GRECO-ANATOLIAN
    0.6 MELANESIA

    Target: ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR107
    Distance: 2.1063% / 0.02106286 | ADC: 0.25x
    64.4 TRANSALPINE-ROMAN
    23.4 GRECO-ROMAN
    11.4 LEVANTINE
    0.8 SLAVONIC
    R1219:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS1273/
    Last edited by Riverman; 09-29-2020 at 01:23 PM.

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