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Thread: A theory about the origin of E-V13

  1. #2471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    I see, makes sense. I did a quick google search trying to find the YDNA for other samples with no luck. Would be great, if someone has them on hand, for them to be shared.

    I would lean towards some R1b branches if I was to guess though.
    The best sample for a Cimmerian we got so far, West of the Carpathians, was haplogroup N (IR1). He came from the same paper as the Kyjatice J2a and was much more exotic (Caucasian-East Asian) than all the local Mezocsat samples, which I would largely put into the Thracian category (all females!).

    A genetic study published in Science Advances in October 2018 examined the remains of three Cimmerians buried between around 1000 and 800 BCE. The two samples of Y-DNA extracted belonged to haplogroups R1b1a and Q1a1, while the three samples of mtDNA extracted belonged to haplogroups H9a, C5c and R. [50]

    Another genetic study published in Current Biology in July 2019 examined the remains of three Cimmerians. The two samples of Y-DNA extracted belonged to haplogroups R1a-Z645 and R1a2c-B111, while the three samples of mtDNA extracted belonged to haplogroups H35, U5a1b1 and U2e2.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians

    So we have R1a, R1b, Q1a and N from Cimmerians, afaik.

  2. #2472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    This is what is really known about the samples:


    That's a fairly early period and the ritual pits being common in Gáva and related formations in the Tisza-Körös region. The site and area too being part of the Psenichevo culture, so a direct descendant from the Channelled Ware expansion. This is therefore a key site for Thracians.



    He might be as well an early Thracian from the Channelled Ware sphere and/or having influences from the steppe, like Cimmerians in particular, but also beginning Iranians/Scythians. Like from Noua-Sabatinovka-Coslogeni.



    Flat inhumation burials in that period might be the pre-Thracian population, but which group is important, because before Channelled Ware, the region was very diverse, more so than afterwards.



    K8 is a much later sample, so after the dust had settled down, the newcomers had mixed with the locals and additional influx from the Aegean might have taken place. Could be regional, individual, or widespread.

    Therefore I wouldn't wonder, at all, if the early Psenichevo samples are more Northern and closer to East Carpathian/Gáva as well as steppe (Cimmerian/Scythian) samples, while in the latter the shift in the direction of BGR_IA had taken place. It would be a perfect fit if exactly the Psenichevo finds would be, even if just slightly, more Central European shifted.

    The clearly Psenichevo finds are key for Thrace. They represent the Channelled Ware newcomers, even if being mixed already, the best in Bulgaria.

    Source for the comments on the finds:
    https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014...arian-genomes/
    The problem is though is that the K8 sample is likely contaminated with both environmental and human DNA.

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  4. #2473
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    The problem is though is that the K8 sample is likely contaminated with both environmental and human DNA.
    That would be no problem, but a good explanation. Obviously I care the most for the earlier finds, the earlier the better. MBA, LBA, EIA and a comparison of those, which might show which groups migrated in. Like not just Channelled Ware migrated into Thrace, but Noua-Sabatinovka-Coslogeni from the steppe, Incrusted Pottery people from Western Pannonia and the Channelled Ware distant relatives of Brnjica from the Morava region too.
    Channelled Ware came last, and conquered them all, before coming themselves under pressure from the steppe (Cimmerians, Scythians).

    The only thing I wonder is, how after all these incursions, any more Anatolian-like local element did prevail. Probably because they were so numerous? Doesn't look like it, because the population density wasn't that high. Rather, it might be from later contacts to the Aegean-Anatolian to some degree, probably. Unless the newcomers came in even smaller numbers and though dominating socially, culturally, never really replaced the local population. But that has to be seen.

  5. #2474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    That would be no problem, but a good explanation. Obviously I care the most for the earlier finds, the earlier the better. MBA, LBA, EIA and a comparison of those, which might show which groups migrated in. Like not just Channelled Ware migrated into Thrace, but Noua-Sabatinovka-Coslogeni from the steppe, Incrusted Pottery people from Western Pannonia and the Channelled Ware distant relatives of Brnjica from the Morava region too.
    Channelled Ware came last, and conquered them all, before coming themselves under pressure from the steppe (Cimmerians, Scythians).

    The only thing I wonder is, how after all these incursions, any more Anatolian-like local element did prevail. Probably because they were so numerous? Doesn't look like it, because the population density wasn't that high. Rather, it might be from later contacts to the Aegean-Anatolian to some degree, probably. Unless the newcomers came in even smaller numbers and though dominating socially, culturally, never really replaced the local population. But that has to be seen.
    Well by "problem" I meant that the K8 sample's results may not be accurate or worth much unfortunately because of contamination.

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  7. #2475
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    This article makes the special character of the burial pits clear and interprets them as sacrificial pits indeed:

    One of the most important results of the excavations of pit-sanctuaries in
    Thrace1 was the discovery of human skeletons or parts of them. Found in non-
    burial context they can be interpreted as archaeological evidence about
    practising human sacrifice2. The most numerous examples originate from the
    fifth and fourth century BC sites. Such are found in two sanctuaries near
    Gledacevo3 and at the newly discovered sanctuaries at the village of Malko
    Trunovo4 and Yabulkovo5, situated on both banks of the Maritsa River.
    A fifth - fourth century BC pit sanctuary was excavated in the locality of
    Kumsala, located at about 800 m northwest of the centre of the former village of
    Gledachevo, region of Radnevo. Over a hundred pits were explored16. Pit
    9/sector III made a sensation, although at first sight it looked like a standard pit.
    The pit diameter at the opening was 2 m, it was 0.9 m deep and it narrows
    downwards. The first (at the opening) layer was of black soil containing small
    pieces of charcoal; in the second layer the soil was mixed with ashes and pieces
    of charcoal. At this level the skeleton of a young female individual (age of 16)
    was discovered in abnormal posture: face and chest faced the ground, lower
    limbs were folded under the body, right arm bent in the elbow was found under
    the chest, while the left arm was extended to the side. Left hand and right foot
    were missing. Location of the right hand is worth noting: it was holding the right
    shoulder (Fig. 2; Fig. 2 a)17.
    They seem to have preferably offered children and females, as well as all kind of animals, oftentimes severed:
    iscovery of remains of children’s skeletons in three ritual pits attracted
    a lot of attention23. Pit „А” in sector І of the Great Ditch was pear-shaped. Near
    the bottom of the pit in a layer of gray-blackish sticky soil there was a child’s
    skeleton whose pelvis and lower limbs were missing. The pit also contained the
    remains of a dog cut into three, bones of a lamb and a calf, as well as fragments
    of two black-glazed kylikes, one of them being ritually severed into two equal
    halves. According to the anthropological examination the child was two year
    old.
    Human sacrifices seem to have been rare, overall, though:

    Our statement that human
    sacrifice was only rarely practiced, as an exception, and probably in crucial
    moments for the community has further been proved: human remains were
    found only in four pits among the 250 pits excavated in the Eastern Sector of the
    sanctuary at Malko Trunovo.
    Also worth to mention: Roman practised human sacrifices in their early period as well, they just abandoned it later. Carthaginians seem to have still practised it when being at war with Rome on a larger scale.

    This practice was known in the Early Iron Age as well,
    although the examples of the period are not so numerous. The exploration of a
    pit complex on the right bank of the Maritsa River near Svilengrad yielded the
    most representative results: there human remains, mainly children’s, were
    discovered in 10 ritual pits. Most of them belong to the Early Iron Age42. The
    only known earlier case is that of the two “embraced” skeletons found in a Late
    Bronze Age pit at Doyrentsi43. It is worth noting that in later publications of the
    same complex the possibility of it being a burial has not been ruled out44.
    This ritual is attested in the Thracian lands to the north of the Danube as
    well. The data is substantial and widely discussed by Valеriu Sîrbu against the
    background of “human bones discovered in non-burial context”45. The second-
    first century BC materials originating from cult sites at Orlea, St. George,
    Sighişoara-Wietemberg, Moigrad-Măgura are of great significance for the
    present study. They are “agglomerations of pits..., located beyond any other
    monuments (buildings, settlements and necropoleis)”, and also considered
    sanctuaries46. Human skeletons and bones found at these cult sites, similar to the
    discussed complexes in Thrace south of the Balkan Range and those in the
    southern lands of the Lower Danube, although dated two centuries later, confirm
    the conservatism of Thracian beliefs and ritual practices on both sides of the
    Danube. Data for such ritual practices come also from ritual pits in the North
    Pontic area 4

    Oftentimes widows, usually the favourite wife, followed elite males, like chiefs, into death. This practise didn't just connect the Thracians with the Indoiranians to some degree, but even more so with the much closer Eastern Hallstatt people of Frög (Austria) in particular, where there were elite burials with widows found as well:
    Ancient authors undoubtedly attested Thracians performing human
    sacrifices: the ritual death of the messenger to Zalmoxis, the story of King
    Diegylis sacrificing two Greeks; the custom according to which the favourite
    wife accompanied her husband in death
    48. The examples, already numerous, of
    human sacrifices in pit-sanctuaries seem to support the ancient written sources
    and pose many new questions about the interpretation of that authentic
    archaeological evidence.
    https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ication_detail

    Thanks to Hawk for pointing to the paper:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post649679

    This is part of the reason why we find more (still very rare) inhumation buried females, only sometimes male children and juveniles, but much more rarely males in the Channelled Ware context. Because the regular burial was just cremation.

    Ritual pits were common in Gáva, one of the defining features, but human sacrifices much rarer than in the (Southern) Thracian branch later.

  8. #2476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post

    Human sacrifices seem to have been rare, overall, though
    As far as Svilengrad is concerned, the situation was rather different. The reason why we have samples from this specific site at Svilengrad is because it was easy to obtain samples from it as it was not a settlement and not part of burial grounds, but a ritual sacrifice pit where remains of many individuals who were sacrificed were lumped together over the centuries

    Ritual Pit Complexes in Iron Age Thrace. The Case Study of Svilengrad, 2012
    Julia Tzvetkova
    Georgi Nekhrizov


    The human remains in the pits, e. g. in a non-mortuary context, remain one of the main arguments for their ritual nature and also raise the question of the reason for their presence. Most scholars accept that human skeletons or body parts recovered from the pits are traces of ritual sacrifices. If this is so, archaeological confirmation may have been found for the testimonies of ancient authors about the Thracians practising human sacrifice (see Hdt. 4.94; Diod. 33.14). The results from several pit complexes, most of them dating to the late Iron Age, allow some scholars to see the presence of human skeletons or single bones in the pits as isolated cases, and further to offer the hypothesis that human sacrifice is a exceptional practice. This assumtion seems valid, but only for late Iron Age Thrace. In the Svilengrad pit complex,human remains appear in 10 per cent of all excavated features. Most of them date to the early Iron Age and this should be interpreted as that — at least in the early Iron Age — human sacrifice was not an uncommon practice. Another important observa-tion is the predominant number of children’s remains in the complex. This fact, attested only here, corresponds to the above mentioned late Iron Age rite of placing young or newborn animals in the pits. It is probable that we are witnessing here a change in the rite through time, as human sacrifice/human remains deposition in theearly Iron Age is replaced with the sacrifice of animals in the late Iron Age, thus explaining the lack of human remains in late Iron Age pit sanctuaries. The anthropomorphic figurines, whose presence among pit offerings could symbolise human offerings, may furthermore signal the transition away from, and replacement of, human sacrifice.

    The main question is: who were the people who were sacrificed at Svilengrad?
    Last edited by Bruzmi; 06-21-2022 at 11:43 PM.

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  10. #2477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    The main question is: who were the people who were sacrificed at Svilengrad?
    The most likely answer is local people from the local tribe or prisoners and slaves from neighbouring groups, which were Thracians as well. Especailly if its sacrifices of young, non-adult people, its usually people of the own tribe.

    The last historically noted official sacrifice (not just games, which kind of were sacrifices too) in Rome were foreigners:
    In 228 BC, • the Roman government ordered the burial alive of a Celtic couple and a Greek couple in the Forum Boarium: in other words, a human sacrifice. The burial alive of Celts and Greeks was repeated in 216, and again in 114/3. In 97, a senatus consulturn finally forbade the practice. Thereafter, a human sacrifice did not occur at Rome--at least, as long as the Republic lasted. 2
    https://www.degruyter.com/document/d...237479-006/pdf

    But before that, Roman girls were sacrificed as sort of punishment:

    wo of these human sacrifices (216 and 114/113 BCE) had connections with the Vestal Virgins, the revered priestesshood of Vesta. Two Vestal Virgins were accused of unchaste behaviour in 216 BCE — a powerful accusation, since the priestesses’ virginity linked with the sacred flame during their 30 year tenure. One of the accused took her own life rather than face the customary punishment. They subjected the second to the traditional sentence, namely being buried alive in a chamber near the Colline Gate with a limited amount of food. In 114/113 BCE, a slave accused three Vestal Virgins — Marcia, Licina, Aemilia — of having numerous lovers. The Romans subjected the trio of Vestals to the punishment of being buried alive. The Vestal scandals were likely viewed as portents, encouraging the consultation of the Sibylline books, thenceforth leading to the killing of the Gallic and Greek couples. Previous events created precedents when, if fulfilled, could lead to human sacrifice, creating a feedback loop of fear.
    https://historyofyesterday.com/ancie...e-4226fa3c251a

    More on Roman human sacrifices:
    https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer..._at_Rome*.html

    The Greek mythology is also helpful in understanding human sacrifices, especially since they lived nearby and got influences from their neighbours:

    In the story, Agamemnon offends the goddess Artemis on his way to the Trojan War by hunting and killing one of Artemis' sacred stags. She retaliates by preventing the Greek troops from reaching Troy unless Agamemnon kills his eldest daughter, Iphigenia, at Aulis as a human sacrifice. In some versions, Iphigenia dies at Aulis, and in others, Artemis rescues her.[1] In the version where she is saved, she goes to the Taurians and meets her brother Orestes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphigenia

  11. #2478
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    E-V13 from Avar-Hungarian paper:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post828196
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post828251

    Official G25 coordinates:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post856597

    I picked up most of the Avar samples for E-V13 and added the early Sarmatian and three Hungarian Transtisza (which all pick up Sarmatian era Transtisza ancestry on a significant level) to the sample:

    Code:
    HUN_Sarmatian_Early_Transtisza:I20802,0.119514,0.133034,0.038089,0.013889,0.016926,0,0.002115,-0.003923,-0.001023,0.005467,0.001137,0.007343,-0.004608,-0.005092,-0.005836,-0.003315,0.00678,0.00152,0.007416,-0.009505,-0.004243,0.003339,0.006039,0.001687,-0.006347
    HUN_early_Avar:SZK102,0.1161,0.156392,0.000754,-0.050065,0.024312,-0.016733,0.003995,-0.002308,0.008999,0.036265,0.002273,0.005845,-0.014717,-0.006193,-0.020222,0.007027,0.026598,-0.000127,0.005782,0.003502,-0.002995,0.004699,0,-0.000241,-0.005389
    HUN_early_Avar:SZOD1829,0.133173,0.142174,0.034695,0.02261,0.037853,0.008088,0.003995,0.009923,0.001636,-0.000729,0.000325,-0.002398,-0.000743,0.00055,0.005022,0.005701,0.002086,0.005194,-0.004777,-5e-04,-0.000499,-0.00136,0.004314,0.006386,0.005868
    HUN_middle_Avar:SZK83,0.125205,0.149283,0.006411,-0.026163,0.021235,-0.011435,-0.000235,0.000692,0.00859,0.024784,-0.000162,0.01154,-0.011596,-0.005918,-0.006107,-0.006497,0.00339,0.003927,0.008296,-0.01113,-0.000998,0.005564,-0.007272,0.008435,0.00455
    HUN_middle_Avar:SZM259,0.1161,0.122879,0.014331,-0.02907,0.022466,-0.006414,-0.003525,0.002308,-0.002045,0.028247,-0.00065,0.003597,-0.009366,-0.000963,-0.012079,-0.005171,0.008084,0,0.002263,-0.002126,-0.000374,-0.000742,0.003328,-0.003494,-0.002515
    HUN_middle_Avar:SSD144,0.122929,0.139128,0.026398,-0.013566,0.026774,-0.004462,0.00235,-0.004615,-0.003477,0.013121,-0.003735,-0.001349,-0.003419,0.000138,-0.008007,-0.006099,0.007693,0.002787,0.006913,-0.001876,-0.002745,0.001113,0.007148,-0.00012,-0.003832
    HUN_middlelate_Avar:ALT442,0.125205,0.136081,0.039975,0.004845,0.032006,-0.001673,0.00376,0.003692,-0.002045,0.002187,0.001786,0.004346,0,-0.000413,-0.007329,-0.006364,0.000782,0.001774,0.010559,-0.005628,-0.007112,0.005812,0.005423,0.002169,-0.001078
    HUN_late_Avar:SZKT311,0.118376,0.14319,0.011314,-0.014535,0.01908,0.001952,0.002115,0.006692,-0.004295,0.015672,-0.000974,0.001499,-0.002973,0.004404,-0.012215,-0.005436,-0.003781,-0.002027,0.008799,-0.004877,0.006489,0.003339,-0.001356,-0.00494,0.001676
    HUN_late_Avar:SZKT70,0.117238,0.113739,0.029038,0.007106,0.01508,0.006693,0.00329,0.001154,0,-0.00164,-0.005196,0.006894,-0.0055,0.00812,-0.011808,-0.010607,-0.011213,0.006588,0.012067,-0.004877,-0.007112,0.005441,-0.001972,0.004579,-0.004191
    HUN_late_Avar:SZKT265,0.125205,0.145221,0.021119,-0.016473,0.025235,-0.010319,0.00094,-0.002077,0.001023,0.024602,0.000162,0.003297,-0.010406,0.006881,-0.015336,-0.001724,0.005476,0.001394,-0.001508,-0.003877,-0.010981,0.00643,0.00037,-0.002892,-0.007903
    HUN_late_Avar:SZK130,0.117238,0.128972,0.015085,-0.008721,0.017542,-0.009482,0.001175,0.002077,-0.006749,0.00656,0.002923,0.002398,-0.006392,0.01101,-0.014115,-0.00053,-0.006128,0.004054,0.009176,-0.003877,-0.010107,-0.003957,0.001602,0.00241,-0.001557
    HUN_late_Avar:KK1252,0.117238,0.152329,0.000754,-0.036822,0.028621,-0.005299,-0.00282,-0.007384,0.001023,0.038634,0.004709,0.010641,-0.020367,0.006744,-0.016558,0.002784,0.016428,0.003294,0.006536,-0.000625,-0.000374,-0.000866,0.007888,0.006989,-0.001078
    HUN_late_Avar:KK1541,0.10927,0.156392,0.004903,-0.027132,0.019388,-0.013387,-0.00047,0.002308,0.000818,0.017677,-0.002923,0.000599,-0.005203,0.005643,-0.013572,0.00305,0.002477,-0.004561,0.001885,-0.002626,-0.003619,0.005564,0.003081,0.004338,-0.007903
    HUN_late_Avar:PV12,0.113823,0.076165,0.025267,-0.002584,0.017542,-0.006972,0.005405,-0.005769,-0.001023,0.011663,0.00065,0.005095,-0.007433,-0.00055,-0.010858,0.001989,0.010561,0.005068,0.003394,0.003502,-0.006114,0.001978,-0.01023,-0.000964,0.002395
    HUN_late_Avar:TMH199,0.133173,0.128972,0.063356,0.042636,0.038776,0.008367,0.00376,0.004615,0.011862,0.004738,-0.007307,0.006444,-0.002081,0.005092,0.016151,0.010872,0.001173,0.003547,-0.001257,-0.002876,0.005241,-0.004204,0.002095,0.006507,-0.002994
    HUN_late_Avar:OBT51,0.092197,-0.023357,0.024513,-0.001292,-0.016311,-0.010319,0.00893,0.008307,-0.004909,0.008018,-0.009906,0.001349,-0.005352,0.000138,0.002036,-0.004641,0.001565,-0.003421,0.00993,0.002126,-0.002745,0.002102,-0.003451,-0.004458,-0.004071
    HUN_late_Avar:OBT106,0.087644,-0.072103,0.028284,-0.006783,-0.018773,-0.014223,0.00799,0.003692,0.000614,-0.003098,-0.024845,-0.003747,0.002527,-0.009634,-0.008958,0.009149,0.007041,-0.002154,0.00352,0.005628,-0.003119,-0.005317,0.000246,0.004458,0.000958
    HUN_late_Avar:ALT369,0.1161,0.116786,0.034695,0.012597,0.022158,-0.000279,0.01034,0.008307,0.0045,0.002734,0.006658,-0.002698,-0.002379,0.007019,-0.016558,0.004641,0.011735,-0.004307,0.00817,0.00025,-0.002246,0.003957,-0.006902,-0.000964,0.005149
    HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1,0.133173,0.132019,0.065996,0.049419,0.039392,0.024542,0.00893,0.008769,0.003886,-0.013668,-0.00065,-0.007343,0.008325,0.014863,-0.012486,0.005304,-0.005346,0.00228,0.002388,0.002126,-0.001497,-0.002844,0.007888,-0.006748,0.000838
    HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE90,0.113823,0.084289,0.049026,0.024871,0.017849,-0.003904,0.006345,0.001846,0.000409,0.003827,-0.009581,3e-04,-0.012636,0.002752,0.0019,-0.002917,-0.007432,-0.006841,-0.00264,0.005253,-0.010107,-0.002968,0.004314,-0.002169,0.001437
    HUN_Conqueror_commoner:PLE23,0.124067,0.125926,0.054305,0.021318,0.040623,0.011435,0.00846,0.004846,-0.00225,-0.009112,-0.002761,0.003747,-0.008325,0.002615,-0.002714,0.012198,0.014864,-0.002154,0.000628,0.002001,0.001497,-0.004822,0.00037,0.001446,0.002874
    HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH182,0.118376,0.127957,0.029038,0.00646,0.024312,0.003904,0.008225,0.004384,0.007772,-0.00328,0.002273,0.002548,0.004162,0.011423,-0.009772,0.015513,0.025816,0.002914,-0.002388,-0.002751,-0.002995,-0.009892,0.007395,-0.00241,-0.007424
    I created a model for these samples:
    Code:
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213,0.127482,0.149283,0.0445,0.01615,0.040931,0.004183,0.002585,-0.002538,0.01084,0.018041,-0.000974,0.008243,-0.004014,0.002202,-0.007193,-0.00769,-0.013951,0.005701,0.007165,-0.006753,-0.003868,0.000618,-0.008997,-0.014701,0.005748
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239,0.12862,0.14319,0.049026,-0.001938,0.047701,0,0.004465,0.000462,0.01309,0.018953,0.006171,0.007493,-0.007582,-0.00234,-0.007057,0.001989,0.007693,0.00114,-0.004274,-5e-04,0.001622,0.004328,-0.005793,-0.010001,0.003952
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245,0.133173,0.149283,0.05506,0.026486,0.044931,0.006972,0.011986,0.009,0.01268,0.006743,0.001949,-0.000749,-0.003865,0.003165,-0.004207,0.006099,0.005607,0.002534,0.002137,-0.001126,0.002246,-0.004451,0.000986,-0.005181,-0.010897
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246,0.119514,0.149283,0.056945,0.013243,0.047393,0.005578,0.001175,0.003231,0.01309,0.014397,0.002761,0.002398,-0.004906,0.006744,-0.005836,-0.004243,-0.001304,-0.007095,0.005656,-0.000375,-0.009234,0.009521,0.003574,-0.013616,0.003233
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20749,0.133173,0.136081,0.065242,0.049096,0.048932,0.013387,0.003055,0.006231,0.009408,0.008018,-0.003085,-0.005245,0.000446,0.006193,-0.006922,0.016839,0.024773,-0.004054,-0.007165,0.013381,0.005241,0.001237,0.000863,-0.012893,-0.00934
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I1504,0.125205,0.15436,0.060716,0.033592,0.061242,0.008646,0.00423,0.007615,0.014317,0.007836,-0.004547,-0.006594,0.001041,0.007432,-0.002579,-0.001591,0.010952,-0.002027,0.008547,0.004752,0.004617,0.005317,0.003081,-0.013134,0.000239
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20751,0.126344,0.142174,0.059962,0.032946,0.051394,0.009482,0.00517,0.003461,0.016157,0.020046,-0.007307,-0.000599,-0.001784,-0.003303,-0.006786,0.018297,0.014603,0.006968,0.004274,0.002626,-0.001497,0.001484,-0.004437,-0.00012,-0.002515
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20771,0.133173,0.135065,0.061094,0.046512,0.050779,0.016455,0.002585,0.003461,0.010226,0.007472,-0.00065,-0.01109,-0.002676,0.001651,-0.007736,0.017237,0.024773,-0.009755,-0.005154,0.013256,0.00549,0.001237,0.000246,-0.014098,-0.005149
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20773,0.132035,0.146236,0.064488,0.035207,0.056318,0.01004,0.013631,0.001154,0.018203,0.018953,0.00406,-0.002997,0.003122,-0.003991,0.00285,0.024264,0.004694,0.010515,-0.002765,-0.000875,-0.01984,0.007419,-0.014543,-0.012291,-0.002994
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I25505,0.130897,0.147252,0.064488,0.033592,0.045855,-0.000279,0.003995,0.004154,0.015544,0.01057,-0.007145,0.01169,-0.00223,0.005367,0.001764,-0.012066,-0.008996,0.005828,0.010307,-0.005253,0.004617,0.008285,0.002465,-0.015062,-0.004071
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA134,0.1161,0.054839,0.037335,0.057817,-0.033852,0.031236,0.00846,0.000231,-0.037223,-0.043554,0.001786,-0.005245,0.000149,-0.026974,0.02348,0.004508,-0.014473,-0.002154,-0.004777,-0.001126,-0.008859,0.01422,0.003697,0.008314,0.005029
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA136,0.113823,0.039606,0.039221,0.061047,-0.028005,0.020638,-0.007755,0.002077,-0.023111,-0.033349,-0.005521,0.006145,-0.004906,-0.03358,0.021308,0.030496,-0.002738,0.003927,-0.007793,0.009379,-0.010232,0.019166,-0.008011,0.003133,0.003592
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA139,0.104717,0.051792,0.02753,0.047481,-0.021235,0.015897,0.00094,-0.009461,-0.032724,-0.03262,-0.002111,-0.003597,-0.009217,-0.017478,0.015879,0.009149,0.01343,-0.012669,-0.003897,0.007754,-0.012728,-0.004699,-0.005546,0.009519,-0.000718
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA141,0.112685,0.039606,0.033564,0.073967,-0.031083,0.031236,0.00658,0.005538,-0.032928,-0.030616,-0.003085,-0.005245,-0.010406,-0.026974,0.018322,0.020021,0.000652,0.000507,-0.001383,-0.005878,-0.003369,0.000866,0.009367,0.014098,-0.000718
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA143,0.112685,0.054839,0.039598,0.07429,-0.033852,0.030678,0.00094,0.007384,-0.021066,-0.039545,-0.002761,-0.000899,-0.006838,-0.021056,0.019815,0.008221,-0.011735,-0.004814,-0.011187,5e-04,-0.005116,0.000866,0.002711,-0.005302,-0.000239
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA144,0.10927,0.043668,0.032432,0.076874,-0.022158,0.030678,-0.00893,0.000231,-0.032724,-0.03991,-0.011367,-0.009591,0.010704,-0.02491,0.019679,0.004641,-0.001434,0.001014,0.00088,-0.000375,-0.023583,-0.001113,-0.001356,0.010122,0.011376
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16099,0.126344,0.145221,0.064111,0.021641,0.044931,0.010319,0.001175,0.003692,0.015544,0.015855,-0.00341,0.009292,-0.017393,-0.007982,0.00095,0.023999,0.002347,0.005954,-0.001508,0,0.005615,0.004946,-0.008874,-0.01699,-0.005389
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16100,0.129758,0.133034,0.061094,0.050065,0.046778,0.016733,0,0.005077,0.008385,-0.002187,-0.005359,0.001798,-0.007284,-0.005505,0.004343,-0.002784,0.002738,-0.003674,-0.001508,-0.005503,0.008735,0.005935,-0.002342,-0.007953,0.002036
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16111,0.126344,0.145221,0.053551,0.033269,0.045547,0.01004,0.007755,0.006,0.001227,0.018953,0.005846,0.004196,-0.008176,-0.004266,0.006107,-0.013657,-0.02725,-0.001394,-0.001885,-0.001,0.000125,-0.001607,-0.012078,-0.002048,-0.005987
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16112,0.130897,0.142174,0.054305,0.022287,0.047393,0.009203,-0.00047,0.007154,0.002045,0.019499,-0.006008,0.001948,-0.018731,-0.014863,-0.005157,0.001591,-0.005737,-0.000887,-0.000126,-0.001126,-0.003619,-0.005688,-0.005423,-0.007591,-0.002994
    Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
    Dai,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0.007095
    Germanic:DEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
    Germanic:VK2020_NOR_North_IA:VK418,0.125205,0.132019,0.070144,0.064277,0.040315,0.019522,0.00423,0.013846,0.007567,-0.007107,-0.001786,-0.002847,-0.011001,-0.001514,0.031487,-0.005967,-0.029858,-0.0019,0.00352,0.003001,0.010606,0.000371,0,0.003012,-0.000838
    Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA:VK391,0.12862,0.141159,0.080327,0.062662,0.047701,0.022311,0.012691,0.011076,-0.003068,-0.015672,-0.012666,-0.004496,-0.002081,-0.007707,0.019679,0.0118,0.004303,0.003547,-0.006159,0.001,0.006988,-0.002597,-0.010723,0.014098,0.011017
    CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
    ITA_Rome_Latini_IA,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
    CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I24342,0.127482,0.138112,0.041483,0.009367,0.038776,-0.006414,-0.002115,0.001385,0.015544,0.023144,0.004384,0.012289,-0.018285,-0.011285,0.0095,0.001724,-0.001043,0.002154,0.001383,0,0.006738,0.005193,-0.00493,-0.001807,-0.001557
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26726,0.121791,0.144205,0.032432,-0.012274,0.026466,-0.000279,-0.006815,-0.001154,0.005931,0.030069,0.008444,0.006145,-0.029137,0.001789,-0.000814,-0.017634,-0.01369,-0.000633,0.014078,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.004575,0.002342,0.004458,-0.001317
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26773,0.122929,0.144205,0.045254,0.004199,0.023697,-0.006414,-0.006815,-0.005538,0.006136,0.026242,0.002273,0.01169,-0.021853,-0.015414,0.005836,-0.001458,0.007041,0.009375,0.004274,-0.006128,-0.012228,0.003091,-0.00419,0.005543,-0.006347
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26774,0.12862,0.149283,0.039221,0.002907,0.033852,0.000279,-0.00282,0.008538,0.008385,0.026242,-0.000812,0.01094,-0.016353,-0.000826,0.001764,-0.006364,-0.002086,0.00076,0.007668,-0.004502,0.000374,0.011994,-0.003821,0.004097,-0.003952
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26893,0.129758,0.149283,0.041106,0.013889,0.02739,0.002789,0.00188,0.002077,0.004909,0.023144,-0.007957,0.010491,-0.024975,-0.014588,0.001764,0.005569,0.021383,0.001394,0.006536,0.001876,-0.002995,0.004946,0.002465,0.005302,-0.006347
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4331,0.12862,0.151314,0.028284,-0.007429,0.038776,-0.006972,-0.00705,-0.006,0.003681,0.028064,0.006171,0.010341,-0.017542,-0.003578,-0.0076,0.006497,0.008084,-0.003041,0.006159,-0.011631,-0.005865,-0.001113,-0.00037,0.003856,-0.001197
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4332,0.120652,0.147252,0.034318,-0.012274,0.038469,0.002231,-0.00423,0.001154,0.009613,0.032074,-0.006008,0.01094,-0.012487,-0.014726,-0.005972,0.01074,0.02047,-0.00114,0.000754,-0.011005,-0.001248,0.008656,-0.00419,0.002048,-0.002395
    South_Thrace_local:BGR_IA:I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9006,0.119514,0.160454,-0.006788,-0.068476,0.014464,-0.03514,-0.003055,-0.006923,-0.002863,0.050115,0.004384,0.015137,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.019815,-0.005304,0.024643,0.007601,0.020992,-0.000375,-0.007487,-0.012365,-0.010969,-0.000602,-0.001796
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9010,0.110408,0.160454,-0.015462,-0.071383,0.029544,-0.038487,-0.003525,0.004154,0.013499,0.056129,0.018025,0.017235,-0.00223,-0.00234,-0.023208,-0.005038,0.031553,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004002,-0.006613,0.003215,-0.016145,-0.007109,-0.003113
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9033,0.091058,0.150298,-0.004148,-0.050388,0.022773,-0.013387,0.007285,-0.006692,0.003068,0.041003,-0.003573,0.019333,-0.020218,0.005505,-0.006515,-0.026518,0.00678,-0.003167,0.012193,-0.008629,-0.002995,-0.006306,-0.000616,0.005904,0.006945
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9041,0.110408,0.15436,-0.006034,-0.068476,0.020004,-0.021475,-0.00282,0.000923,0.007976,0.042097,0.003248,0.016036,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.016015,-0.002387,0.021122,0.006588,0.010182,-0.002876,-0.006364,0.016199,0.001356,0.006386,-0.00491
    Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0887823,0.1447132,-0.0554368,-0.085595,-0.0116175,-0.0282378,-0.0074612,-0.0076152,0.0076698,0.0121642,0.0031262,-0.01139,0.0130822,-0.0017893,-0.0105862,0.0093475,0.002673,-0.0006652,0.0025138,0.0022512,0.000655,0.0059042,-0.0035742,0.0001205,-0.005299
    Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
    TUR_Ottoman,0.079107,-0.0741335,0.01829,-0.0075905,-0.043085,-0.0133865,0.0029375,0.000808,-0.010124,-0.012119,-0.00885,-0.0063695,-0.0057235,-0.0088075,0.0052255,0,0.007758,0.000887,-0.0018855,-0.000375,-0.0089845,-0.0004325,-0.0096135,-0.001747,0.0003595
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
    TUR_Alalakh_MLBA,0.0970122,0.1472908,-0.0604988,-0.090117,-0.0156477,-0.0341748,0.0015728,-0.0050412,-0.00306,0.0125111,0.006408,-0.0047555,0.0086109,0.004912,-0.0113588,0.0070272,-0.0005767,0.0018711,0.0047668,-0.002535,0.0021548,0.0038048,-0.0040007,-0.0040968,0.0005988
    That's the result for model 1 without the Sarmatian era samples:


    https://ibb.co/8bqKXQj

    All but one, even though I did overfitting with a multitude of sources, did pick up Channelled Ware-related ancestry.

    If adding the Sarmatian era samples, those begin to dominate:



    https://ibb.co/6vj2ZDd

    But even then Channelled Ware related ancestry being picked up in all but 4!

    The two almost fully Avar East Asian samples, which being phenotypically classified as Mongoloid in the paper, are very clear in this model too. They can be modelled with Turkic + (one quarter) Channelled Ware.
    Last edited by Riverman; 06-23-2022 at 02:44 PM.

  12. #2479
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    I added AV2 to the Slavic source, because its the closest we got:

    Code:
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181013,0.129758,0.103584,0.037335,0.036176,0.001846,0.014223,0.005405,0.004615,-0.018203,-0.012392,0.002273,0.002847,-0.000446,-0.006881,-0.008007,-0.007823,0.019688,0.010642,0.005028,-0.003126,-0.015473,0.000989,0.001356,0.00735,-0.003712
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181014,0.126344,0.12491,0.039598,0.026486,0.025851,0.008925,0.00329,0.006461,-0.001227,0.000729,-0.007145,0.009292,-0.008622,-0.002615,0.000679,-0.011138,-0.008475,0.000887,0.004022,-0.000625,-0.001747,0.002226,-0.002218,0.000361,-0.002275
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181015,0.119514,0.100537,0.031301,0.030362,0.008309,0.008925,-0.00423,-0.001846,-0.007772,-0.000364,0.001624,0,-0.006838,-0.002752,0.002579,-0.009149,-0.009648,-0.001014,0.005405,-0.003502,-0.00836,-0.006677,0.00456,-0.005302,-0.010658
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181016,0.122929,0.101553,0.038843,0.034238,0.005232,-0.000837,0.011045,-0.003,-0.00859,0.003462,0.001461,-3e-04,0.004608,-0.010046,0.008279,-0.004641,-0.015646,-0.009628,0.008422,0.003001,-0.001622,-0.005193,0.006162,-0.006025,-0.004311
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017,0.126344,0.110693,0.041483,0.038437,0.022466,0.013387,0.001175,0.004615,-0.004295,-0.001458,-0.005359,0.005545,-0.007879,-0.011698,-0.002036,0.003182,0.00339,0.001394,-0.000628,0.003627,-0.005241,0.000124,0.001849,0.00964,-0.00455
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181018,0.135449,0.125926,0.069013,0.060401,0.041854,0.021475,0.00705,0.013846,-0.000614,-0.01221,0.000162,0.003447,-0.005649,-0.002615,0.012486,0.017634,0.008214,0.0019,0.009679,0.007253,0.006114,0.002597,0.000123,0.013737,0.010298
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181019,0.129758,0.12491,0.044877,0.02261,0.020311,0.004462,-0.00423,0.003923,-0.001227,0.001276,-0.009256,0.010641,-0.009068,-0.001651,0.006107,-0.001458,0.008345,0.006841,0.003142,-0.005503,0.000374,-0.000124,-0.000493,-0.006386,0.000359
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181020,0.126344,0.128972,0.039598,0.030362,0.031083,0.008088,-0.000235,-0.000692,0.005931,0.003827,0.008769,3e-04,-0.003717,-0.005505,-0.010179,-0.006232,0.001434,0.00152,0.010684,-0.003627,-0.006239,-0.007419,0.009983,0.005663,-0.005628
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181021,0.135449,0.146236,0.051666,0.01615,0.041238,0.007809,0.00047,0.004615,0.005113,0.00492,0.000162,0.003747,-0.006838,0.008945,-0.002986,-0.010607,-0.009127,0.002027,0.004525,0.001126,0.001497,0.00371,0.007025,-0.001687,0.001676
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181022,0.122929,0.140143,0.036204,0.015181,0.029852,0.000279,0.00752,0.009923,-0.001432,0.00656,0.002111,0.010041,-0.012042,-0.000138,-0.006922,0,0.009388,-0.000507,0.002011,-0.005002,0.000749,0.003586,0.003204,-0.010122,-0.008023
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023,0.125205,0.119832,0.048271,0.044251,0.025851,0.020359,0.003525,0.003461,-0.001432,-0.00164,-0.003085,-0.002398,-0.000892,-0.001651,0.012351,0.005038,-0.003651,-0.00266,0.004274,5e-04,0.000624,-0.000618,-0.001725,0.006025,-0.002275
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181024,0.124067,0.133034,0.038089,0.002907,0.026774,0,0.000235,0.003461,0.000409,0.012939,0.001624,0.006294,-0.005203,-0.001239,-0.014251,-0.004508,0.013038,-0.00152,0.006159,-0.007128,-0.002371,0.002968,-0.005176,0.002169,-0.001197
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181025,0.130897,0.132019,0.036958,0.018734,0.037238,0.00502,0.001175,0.001846,0.005931,0.00492,0,0.004646,-0.008771,0,-0.001629,0.000265,0.005085,-0.003547,0.005531,-0.004127,-0.003494,0.001237,0.008381,0.002289,-0.005508
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181026,0.133173,0.13405,0.053551,0.014858,0.036622,0.00753,0.00376,0.005077,0.001636,0.009294,0.001949,0.008542,-0.010555,0.006193,-0.004343,-0.006629,-0.013169,0.004307,0.009679,-0.003752,-0.012728,-0.002226,0.006162,0.003976,0.001437
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181027,0.120652,0.146236,0.02225,-0.013889,0.031698,-0.010598,0.00282,0.003231,0.003886,0.025513,-0.001299,0.004346,-0.018583,-0.008808,-0.011808,0.009546,0.026598,-0.003294,-0.002891,-0.002626,-0.006114,0.002226,0.002835,0.007109,-0.010298
    HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028,0.133173,0.11577,0.049403,0.024548,0.032929,0.004183,0.003055,0.002077,0.004295,0.001458,-0.003735,0.002098,-0.007284,-0.009771,0.000814,0.012729,0.008866,0.000887,0.007542,0.003627,-0.012353,-0.004575,-0.007888,0.004097,-0.006227
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213,0.127482,0.149283,0.0445,0.01615,0.040931,0.004183,0.002585,-0.002538,0.01084,0.018041,-0.000974,0.008243,-0.004014,0.002202,-0.007193,-0.00769,-0.013951,0.005701,0.007165,-0.006753,-0.003868,0.000618,-0.008997,-0.014701,0.005748
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239,0.12862,0.14319,0.049026,-0.001938,0.047701,0,0.004465,0.000462,0.01309,0.018953,0.006171,0.007493,-0.007582,-0.00234,-0.007057,0.001989,0.007693,0.00114,-0.004274,-5e-04,0.001622,0.004328,-0.005793,-0.010001,0.003952
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245,0.133173,0.149283,0.05506,0.026486,0.044931,0.006972,0.011986,0.009,0.01268,0.006743,0.001949,-0.000749,-0.003865,0.003165,-0.004207,0.006099,0.005607,0.002534,0.002137,-0.001126,0.002246,-0.004451,0.000986,-0.005181,-0.010897
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246,0.119514,0.149283,0.056945,0.013243,0.047393,0.005578,0.001175,0.003231,0.01309,0.014397,0.002761,0.002398,-0.004906,0.006744,-0.005836,-0.004243,-0.001304,-0.007095,0.005656,-0.000375,-0.009234,0.009521,0.003574,-0.013616,0.003233
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20749,0.133173,0.136081,0.065242,0.049096,0.048932,0.013387,0.003055,0.006231,0.009408,0.008018,-0.003085,-0.005245,0.000446,0.006193,-0.006922,0.016839,0.024773,-0.004054,-0.007165,0.013381,0.005241,0.001237,0.000863,-0.012893,-0.00934
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I1504,0.125205,0.15436,0.060716,0.033592,0.061242,0.008646,0.00423,0.007615,0.014317,0.007836,-0.004547,-0.006594,0.001041,0.007432,-0.002579,-0.001591,0.010952,-0.002027,0.008547,0.004752,0.004617,0.005317,0.003081,-0.013134,0.000239
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20751,0.126344,0.142174,0.059962,0.032946,0.051394,0.009482,0.00517,0.003461,0.016157,0.020046,-0.007307,-0.000599,-0.001784,-0.003303,-0.006786,0.018297,0.014603,0.006968,0.004274,0.002626,-0.001497,0.001484,-0.004437,-0.00012,-0.002515
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20771,0.133173,0.135065,0.061094,0.046512,0.050779,0.016455,0.002585,0.003461,0.010226,0.007472,-0.00065,-0.01109,-0.002676,0.001651,-0.007736,0.017237,0.024773,-0.009755,-0.005154,0.013256,0.00549,0.001237,0.000246,-0.014098,-0.005149
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I20773,0.132035,0.146236,0.064488,0.035207,0.056318,0.01004,0.013631,0.001154,0.018203,0.018953,0.00406,-0.002997,0.003122,-0.003991,0.00285,0.024264,0.004694,0.010515,-0.002765,-0.000875,-0.01984,0.007419,-0.014543,-0.012291,-0.002994
    Channelled Ware_LBA_EIA:HUN_LBA:I25505,0.130897,0.147252,0.064488,0.033592,0.045855,-0.000279,0.003995,0.004154,0.015544,0.01057,-0.007145,0.01169,-0.00223,0.005367,0.001764,-0.012066,-0.008996,0.005828,0.010307,-0.005253,0.004617,0.008285,0.002465,-0.015062,-0.004071
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA134,0.1161,0.054839,0.037335,0.057817,-0.033852,0.031236,0.00846,0.000231,-0.037223,-0.043554,0.001786,-0.005245,0.000149,-0.026974,0.02348,0.004508,-0.014473,-0.002154,-0.004777,-0.001126,-0.008859,0.01422,0.003697,0.008314,0.005029
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA136,0.113823,0.039606,0.039221,0.061047,-0.028005,0.020638,-0.007755,0.002077,-0.023111,-0.033349,-0.005521,0.006145,-0.004906,-0.03358,0.021308,0.030496,-0.002738,0.003927,-0.007793,0.009379,-0.010232,0.019166,-0.008011,0.003133,0.003592
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA139,0.104717,0.051792,0.02753,0.047481,-0.021235,0.015897,0.00094,-0.009461,-0.032724,-0.03262,-0.002111,-0.003597,-0.009217,-0.017478,0.015879,0.009149,0.01343,-0.012669,-0.003897,0.007754,-0.012728,-0.004699,-0.005546,0.009519,-0.000718
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA141,0.112685,0.039606,0.033564,0.073967,-0.031083,0.031236,0.00658,0.005538,-0.032928,-0.030616,-0.003085,-0.005245,-0.010406,-0.026974,0.018322,0.020021,0.000652,0.000507,-0.001383,-0.005878,-0.003369,0.000866,0.009367,0.014098,-0.000718
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA143,0.112685,0.054839,0.039598,0.07429,-0.033852,0.030678,0.00094,0.007384,-0.021066,-0.039545,-0.002761,-0.000899,-0.006838,-0.021056,0.019815,0.008221,-0.011735,-0.004814,-0.011187,5e-04,-0.005116,0.000866,0.002711,-0.005302,-0.000239
    Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA144,0.10927,0.043668,0.032432,0.076874,-0.022158,0.030678,-0.00893,0.000231,-0.032724,-0.03991,-0.011367,-0.009591,0.010704,-0.02491,0.019679,0.004641,-0.001434,0.001014,0.00088,-0.000375,-0.023583,-0.001113,-0.001356,0.010122,0.011376
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16099,0.126344,0.145221,0.064111,0.021641,0.044931,0.010319,0.001175,0.003692,0.015544,0.015855,-0.00341,0.009292,-0.017393,-0.007982,0.00095,0.023999,0.002347,0.005954,-0.001508,0,0.005615,0.004946,-0.008874,-0.01699,-0.005389
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16100,0.129758,0.133034,0.061094,0.050065,0.046778,0.016733,0,0.005077,0.008385,-0.002187,-0.005359,0.001798,-0.007284,-0.005505,0.004343,-0.002784,0.002738,-0.003674,-0.001508,-0.005503,0.008735,0.005935,-0.002342,-0.007953,0.002036
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16111,0.126344,0.145221,0.053551,0.033269,0.045547,0.01004,0.007755,0.006,0.001227,0.018953,0.005846,0.004196,-0.008176,-0.004266,0.006107,-0.013657,-0.02725,-0.001394,-0.001885,-0.001,0.000125,-0.001607,-0.012078,-0.002048,-0.005987
    CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16112,0.130897,0.142174,0.054305,0.022287,0.047393,0.009203,-0.00047,0.007154,0.002045,0.019499,-0.006008,0.001948,-0.018731,-0.014863,-0.005157,0.001591,-0.005737,-0.000887,-0.000126,-0.001126,-0.003619,-0.005688,-0.005423,-0.007591,-0.002994
    Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
    Dai,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0.007095
    Germanic:DEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
    Germanic:VK2020_NOR_North_IA:VK418,0.125205,0.132019,0.070144,0.064277,0.040315,0.019522,0.00423,0.013846,0.007567,-0.007107,-0.001786,-0.002847,-0.011001,-0.001514,0.031487,-0.005967,-0.029858,-0.0019,0.00352,0.003001,0.010606,0.000371,0,0.003012,-0.000838
    Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA:VK391,0.12862,0.141159,0.080327,0.062662,0.047701,0.022311,0.012691,0.011076,-0.003068,-0.015672,-0.012666,-0.004496,-0.002081,-0.007707,0.019679,0.0118,0.004303,0.003547,-0.006159,0.001,0.006988,-0.002597,-0.010723,0.014098,0.011017
    Slavic:CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
    Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.134311,0.126941,0.081458,0.065569,0.035391,0.033746,0.00987,0.005769,0.004704,-0.02278,-0.002436,-0.005395,0.01219,0.020643,-0.015201,-0.003845,0.005867,0.004561,0.008673,5e-04,0.001497,-0.00272,0.013804,-0.007109,0.002634
    ITA_Rome_Latini_IA,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
    CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I24342,0.127482,0.138112,0.041483,0.009367,0.038776,-0.006414,-0.002115,0.001385,0.015544,0.023144,0.004384,0.012289,-0.018285,-0.011285,0.0095,0.001724,-0.001043,0.002154,0.001383,0,0.006738,0.005193,-0.00493,-0.001807,-0.001557
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26726,0.121791,0.144205,0.032432,-0.012274,0.026466,-0.000279,-0.006815,-0.001154,0.005931,0.030069,0.008444,0.006145,-0.029137,0.001789,-0.000814,-0.017634,-0.01369,-0.000633,0.014078,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.004575,0.002342,0.004458,-0.001317
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26773,0.122929,0.144205,0.045254,0.004199,0.023697,-0.006414,-0.006815,-0.005538,0.006136,0.026242,0.002273,0.01169,-0.021853,-0.015414,0.005836,-0.001458,0.007041,0.009375,0.004274,-0.006128,-0.012228,0.003091,-0.00419,0.005543,-0.006347
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26774,0.12862,0.149283,0.039221,0.002907,0.033852,0.000279,-0.00282,0.008538,0.008385,0.026242,-0.000812,0.01094,-0.016353,-0.000826,0.001764,-0.006364,-0.002086,0.00076,0.007668,-0.004502,0.000374,0.011994,-0.003821,0.004097,-0.003952
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26893,0.129758,0.149283,0.041106,0.013889,0.02739,0.002789,0.00188,0.002077,0.004909,0.023144,-0.007957,0.010491,-0.024975,-0.014588,0.001764,0.005569,0.021383,0.001394,0.006536,0.001876,-0.002995,0.004946,0.002465,0.005302,-0.006347
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4331,0.12862,0.151314,0.028284,-0.007429,0.038776,-0.006972,-0.00705,-0.006,0.003681,0.028064,0.006171,0.010341,-0.017542,-0.003578,-0.0076,0.006497,0.008084,-0.003041,0.006159,-0.011631,-0.005865,-0.001113,-0.00037,0.003856,-0.001197
    Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4332,0.120652,0.147252,0.034318,-0.012274,0.038469,0.002231,-0.00423,0.001154,0.009613,0.032074,-0.006008,0.01094,-0.012487,-0.014726,-0.005972,0.01074,0.02047,-0.00114,0.000754,-0.011005,-0.001248,0.008656,-0.00419,0.002048,-0.002395
    South_Thrace_local:BGR_IA:I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9006,0.119514,0.160454,-0.006788,-0.068476,0.014464,-0.03514,-0.003055,-0.006923,-0.002863,0.050115,0.004384,0.015137,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.019815,-0.005304,0.024643,0.007601,0.020992,-0.000375,-0.007487,-0.012365,-0.010969,-0.000602,-0.001796
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9010,0.110408,0.160454,-0.015462,-0.071383,0.029544,-0.038487,-0.003525,0.004154,0.013499,0.056129,0.018025,0.017235,-0.00223,-0.00234,-0.023208,-0.005038,0.031553,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004002,-0.006613,0.003215,-0.016145,-0.007109,-0.003113
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9033,0.091058,0.150298,-0.004148,-0.050388,0.022773,-0.013387,0.007285,-0.006692,0.003068,0.041003,-0.003573,0.019333,-0.020218,0.005505,-0.006515,-0.026518,0.00678,-0.003167,0.012193,-0.008629,-0.002995,-0.006306,-0.000616,0.005904,0.006945
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9041,0.110408,0.15436,-0.006034,-0.068476,0.020004,-0.021475,-0.00282,0.000923,0.007976,0.042097,0.003248,0.016036,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.016015,-0.002387,0.021122,0.006588,0.010182,-0.002876,-0.006364,0.016199,0.001356,0.006386,-0.00491
    Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0887823,0.1447132,-0.0554368,-0.085595,-0.0116175,-0.0282378,-0.0074612,-0.0076152,0.0076698,0.0121642,0.0031262,-0.01139,0.0130822,-0.0017893,-0.0105862,0.0093475,0.002673,-0.0006652,0.0025138,0.0022512,0.000655,0.0059042,-0.0035742,0.0001205,-0.005299
    Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
    TUR_Ottoman,0.079107,-0.0741335,0.01829,-0.0075905,-0.043085,-0.0133865,0.0029375,0.000808,-0.010124,-0.012119,-0.00885,-0.0063695,-0.0057235,-0.0088075,0.0052255,0,0.007758,0.000887,-0.0018855,-0.000375,-0.0089845,-0.0004325,-0.0096135,-0.001747,0.0003595
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
    TUR_Alalakh_MLBA,0.0970122,0.1472908,-0.0604988,-0.090117,-0.0156477,-0.0341748,0.0015728,-0.0050412,-0.00306,0.0125111,0.006408,-0.0047555,0.0086109,0.004912,-0.0113588,0.0070272,-0.0005767,0.0018711,0.0047668,-0.002535,0.0021548,0.0038048,-0.0040007,-0.0040968,0.0005988
    This changes things somewhat:



    https://ibb.co/Y3H5fp8

    The most striking result is for AV1, the Slavic mixed individual. It can be modelled fully with Slavic plus Channelled Ware/Sarmatian era Transtisza ancestry! He could be Slavic-Dacian by ancestry.

    Also nice to see how the quarter Germanic samples stick out (2).

    If adding ADC 0,5, this is what remains in the sample - very clearly dominated by Sarmatian Transtisza ancestry!



    https://ibb.co/k34m4xM

    So that's the biggest constant here, the Sarmatian era Transtisza ancestry.
    The Transtisza samples themselves are mixed, some have Germanic, many a little bit actual Sarmatian ancestry. But the three main regional ancestries being Channelled Ware, Tumulus culture/Celtic and Illyrian-like.

    So here again, just like in the haplogroup analysis, the main regional components being Dacian-related and Celtic-related. How much of the Illyrian-like ancestry is caused by mixture creating a similar component or actual Illyrian ancestry remains unresolved, because the Proto-Illyrian too can be modelled with a Western (Tumulus culture-like) plus more Mycenaean-like ancestry, like it was present among the locals in the East Carpathians.
    Last edited by Riverman; 06-23-2022 at 12:23 PM.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     digital_noise (06-23-2022)

  14. #2480
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    Not many of the samples are from the more Northern area of the Transtisza zone. This one is from the Central Transtisza area, very close to the river, so not very Northern or Eastern, from the later Avar period:

    Target: HUN_late_Avar:TMH199
    Distance: 2.0296% / 0.02029629
    42.4 Germanic
    37.0 ChannelledWare_LBA_EIA
    6.2 Proto_Illyrian
    6.0 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
    3.6 TUR_Ottoman
    2.6 Slavic
    1.8 Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
    0.4 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
    With Sarmatian era Transtisza samples:
    Target: HUN_late_Avar:TMH199
    Distance: 2.0124% / 0.02012352
    39.4 Germanic
    32.8 ChannelledWare_LBA_EIA
    17.4 HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza
    6.4 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
    3.0 TUR_Ottoman
    1.0 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
    Appears to be Germanic-Dacian mixed.

    His haplogroup is
    TMHper199 Late Avar 700-760 HV+16311 E1b1b1a1b1a6~ E-Z5016*(xZ42776,Z21297,Z38664,BY4228,BY4529,BY4350, S19928,BY4584,CTS5415,BY4610)

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5016/

    Not sure, but this sample doesn't seem to be on YFull yet. He is from Tiszafüred-Majoros-halom.

    There are actually not that many more Eastern and Northern Tisza samples, the oldest is from the Sarmatian era. Even more remarkable that even most Southern samples being connected to the Transtisza ancestry. We definitely need more Transtisza samples, the earlier, the better.
    Last edited by Riverman; 06-23-2022 at 01:03 PM.

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