Page 54 of 112 FirstFirst ... 444525354555664104 ... LastLast
Results 531 to 540 of 1113

Thread: A theory about the origin of E-V13

  1. #531
    Registered Users
    Posts
    424
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Greek
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a
    mtDNA (M)
    J1

    Australia Greece Byzantine Empire
    I was playing with the FTDNA haplotree recently and thought you guys might find the %'s of E-V13 vs. non-EV13 E1b1b interesting:



    Can anyone explain why when accounting for non-EV13 E1b1b, Greece appears significantly lower than expected? Maybe there's some quirk with the FTDNA haplotree that I'm not aware of that leads to this?
    Code:
    23abc_AncestryDNA_scaled,0.110408,0.151314,-0.0290383,-0.0507112,0.0018465,-0.0156179,-0.00305514,-0.00138456,-0.00899905,0.00911181,0.00243583,-0.00149867,-0.00431116,0.00344057,-0.00773606,0.00106072,0.00195576,0.00152026,0.00251396,-0.00550264,-0.00786113,-0.00197844,0.0025882,0.00168699,0.000957998

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to 23abc For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-04-2021),  Andrewid (08-04-2021),  Bruzmi (08-04-2021),  dosas (08-04-2021),  eraserhead (08-05-2021),  Massam (08-04-2021),  Riverman (08-04-2021)

  3. #532
    Registered Users
    Posts
    859
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FT30249
    mtDNA (M)
    W6c1a

    Byzantine Empire
    It would seem that E-V13 being dominant in Greece is based on overestimation?
    dosas: 56.25% Greek_Macedonia + 43.75% Greek_Trabzon @ 1.769
    wife: 50% English + 50% Irish @ 1.837
    kid1: 56.25% English + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.817
    kid2: 56.25% English_Cornwall + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.866

  4. #533
    Registered Users
    Posts
    160
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    Can anyone explain why when accounting for non-EV13 E1b1b, Greece appears significantly lower than expected? Maybe there's some quirk with the FTDNA haplotree that I'm not aware of that leads to this?
    it's just because of an unrepresentative sample. In Bosnia there is only 15 E, and one of those is E-v12 instead of e-v13, so it gets overblown.
    In Serbia the "non-V13" just didn't test deep enough, so they got placed as E-M78 and E-m35, but they are very likely E-V13 as well.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bce For This Useful Post:

     Michał (08-04-2021),  Riverman (08-04-2021)

  6. #534
    Registered Users
    Posts
    859
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FT30249
    mtDNA (M)
    W6c1a

    Byzantine Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by bce View Post
    it's just because of an unrepresentative sample. In Bosnia there is only 15 E, and one of those is E-v12 instead of e-v13, so it gets overblown.
    In Serbia the "non-V13" just didn't test deep enough, so they got placed as E-M78 and E-m35, but they are very likely E-V13 as well.

    Which is the representative sample so we can compare, can you link?
    dosas: 56.25% Greek_Macedonia + 43.75% Greek_Trabzon @ 1.769
    wife: 50% English + 50% Irish @ 1.837
    kid1: 56.25% English + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.817
    kid2: 56.25% English_Cornwall + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.866

  7. #535
    Registered Users
    Posts
    424
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Greek
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a
    mtDNA (M)
    J1

    Australia Greece Byzantine Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by bce View Post
    it's just because of an unrepresentative sample. In Bosnia there is only 15 E, and one of those is E-v12 instead of e-v13, so it gets overblown.
    In Serbia the "non-V13" just didn't test deep enough, so they got placed as E-M78 and E-m35, but they are very likely E-V13 as well.
    Can you further elaborate why Greece has an unrepresentative sample? There are 694 testers on the tree, which is much more than you would see in Y-DNA studies AFAIK.

    I'm also well aware that Greek migrants to the US, who are the most likely to test, have a more diverse origin than a small sampling of a single city in the Peloponnese would show for example. However, I wouldn't expect such a deviation just based on this alone. And, IMO, this sampling highlights that E-V13 is not a dominant haplogroup across the entirety of Greece as a whole, unlike what many have claimed in this thread. It may definitely have a high frequency in certain areas, but I am very doubtful that would hold true for the entire country if sampled equally.
    Code:
    23abc_AncestryDNA_scaled,0.110408,0.151314,-0.0290383,-0.0507112,0.0018465,-0.0156179,-0.00305514,-0.00138456,-0.00899905,0.00911181,0.00243583,-0.00149867,-0.00431116,0.00344057,-0.00773606,0.00106072,0.00195576,0.00152026,0.00251396,-0.00550264,-0.00786113,-0.00197844,0.0025882,0.00168699,0.000957998

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 23abc For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-04-2021),  Bruzmi (08-04-2021),  dosas (08-04-2021)

  9. #536
    Registered Users
    Posts
    160
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    Which is the representative sample so we can compare, can you link?
    for example, Bosniak DNA project:
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...4456171878&z=8

    257 E samples, only 5 are non-V13.

    for countries without such a large-scale Y-dna project, you can find STR studies and check the haplotypes in a haplogroup predictor like this one:
    https://www.nevgen.org/

    e.g here in the supplementary data you can find Greek haplotypes (among others)
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...000842#sec0080

    for Greece I got 40 E samples, 10 non-v13.

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to bce For This Useful Post:

     Massam (08-04-2021),  Michał (08-04-2021),  Riverman (08-04-2021)

  11. #537
    Registered Users
    Posts
    859
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FT30249
    mtDNA (M)
    W6c1a

    Byzantine Empire
    The Greek DNA project above has n=766. E-V13 being one of the most dominant haplogroups in Greece seem to be one of those anthrofora myths perpetuated with no basis on an actual paradigm.
    Last edited by dosas; 08-04-2021 at 07:45 AM.
    dosas: 56.25% Greek_Macedonia + 43.75% Greek_Trabzon @ 1.769
    wife: 50% English + 50% Irish @ 1.837
    kid1: 56.25% English + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.817
    kid2: 56.25% English_Cornwall + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.866

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dosas For This Useful Post:

     Bruzmi (08-04-2021),  eraserhead (08-05-2021)

  13. #538
    Registered Users
    Posts
    160
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    The Greek DNA project above has n=766. E-V13 being one of the most dominant haplogroups in Greece seem to be one of those anthrofora myths perpetuated with no basis on an actual paradigm.
    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    Can you further elaborate why Greece has an unrepresentative sample? There are 694 testers on the tree, which is much more than you would see in Y-DNA studies AFAIK.

    I'm also well aware that Greek migrants to the US, who are the most likely to test, have a more diverse origin than a small sampling of a single city in the Peloponnese would show for example. However, I wouldn't expect such a deviation just based on this alone. And, IMO, this sampling highlights that E-V13 is not a dominant haplogroup across the entirety of Greece as a whole, unlike what many have claimed in this thread. It may definitely have a high frequency in certain areas, but I am very doubtful that would hold true for the entire country if sampled equally.
    hmm. the search bar says there's 274 Results from Greece, out of those 49 E. However, if I go to E-M96>country report, there's actually 112 E samples from Greece.

    2 are non E-M35, and the rest is E-M35. out of those 54 are E-v13, 4 E-V22, 3 E-V12, 13 E-m34, and 3 E-PF2546, and the rest is tested only for E-M35 or E-M78.
    If we ignore those wich aren't tested deep enough, there's 54 definite E-V13, and 25 definite non-E-V13. So there's around 70% V13 in E, which is similar to that STR study.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to bce For This Useful Post:

     Michał (08-04-2021)

  15. #539
    Registered Users
    Posts
    682

    FTDNA's tree depends on many variables, such as different ethnicities, preference to test further, diaspora, activity of the administrators of different projects to persuade people to test further etc.
    I am not taking anything out of their tree but simply looking at it you can't possibly know if all the testers are ethnic Greeks. Different thing is that many have preference to test SNPs or Big Y simply by already knowing of the broad haplogroup they belong based on their STRs.
    10.35% R1a in Bulgarians and 11.24% of J1 in Greeks doesn't make any sense unless in this statistics there are included minorities such as Turks, Jews etc. Doesn't make sense because none of the available studies have reported such a big difference in this haplogroups among the Bulgarians and the Greeks. Neither Cyprus have that much of J1 as Greece does wich would mean there is quite a MENA y-dna in Greeks but that simply is not true.

    Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots reveals a primarily common pre-Ottoman paternal ancestry with Turkish Cypriots

    This study have some good statistics based on this and different studies for Greeks from different regions and Cyprus.
    In the supplementary tables pone.0179474.s014 and pone.0179474.s013 you will find the following results for E-M78(E-V13 + E-V22) in Greeks:

    Population n E1b1b-M78
    Greek Cypriots 344 12.8%
    Turkish Cypriots 380 13.9%
    Greeks Crete 369 6.5%
    Greeks Peloponnese 179 30.2%
    Greeks Central 199 18.6%
    Greeks Thessaly 72 34.7%
    Greeks Macedonia 142 19.9%
    Greeks Thrace 41 17.1%
    Greeks Asia Minor 105 14.3%

    I agree there are peculiarities but that's what people were referring to when saying that E-V13 is one of the most numerous haplogroups in Greece.

    Heraclides and Voskarides studies about the Greek Cypriots both reported 9.9% and 7.3% of E-V13 in Greek Cypriots with combined percentage of 8.2% out of 975 Greek Cypriots.
    Target: Aspar_scaled
    Distance: 1.9646% / 0.01964602 | ADC: 1x RC
    57.6 Macedonian
    42.4 Greek_Central_Macedonia

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Aspar For This Useful Post:

     Riverman (08-04-2021)

  17. #540
    Registered Users
    Posts
    859
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FT30249
    mtDNA (M)
    W6c1a

    Byzantine Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by bce View Post
    hmm. the search bar says there's 274 Results from Greece, out of those 49 E. However, if I go to E-M96>country report, there's actually 112 E samples from Greece.

    What, you think we're lying to you? Seriously? The country report designates the birthplace of your earliest known ancestor, not ethnicity. I have Bulgarian and Turkish flags as country reports because my great-grand-folks were born in Eastern Rumelia and the Ottoman Empire, respectively.

     

    Last edited by dosas; 08-04-2021 at 08:29 AM.
    dosas: 56.25% Greek_Macedonia + 43.75% Greek_Trabzon @ 1.769
    wife: 50% English + 50% Irish @ 1.837
    kid1: 56.25% English + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.817
    kid2: 56.25% English_Cornwall + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.866

Page 54 of 112 FirstFirst ... 444525354555664104 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Arabic Q-m25 cluster origin theory
    By Afshar in forum Q
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 06-17-2020, 07:45 PM
  2. Mycenaean South Caucausian Origin theory
    By Johane Derite in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-24-2019, 04:03 PM
  3. Out of Africa: a theory in crisis
    By firemonkey in forum Human Evolution
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-29-2018, 11:46 AM
  4. Ancestral origin and Haplogroup origin
    By Smilelover in forum FTDNA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-17-2016, 10:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •