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Thread: A theory about the origin of E-V13

  1. #301
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    J1c2o
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-M81
    mtDNA (P)
    T2a1b1a1b

    Spain
    The funny thing is that the family paternal lines are mine E-V13 and my mother's paternal line E-M81 and my wife's paternal line E-M81. It seems that we have gathered all the Haplogroups E.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xisco View Post
    Only in the town of Pollensa 66 Slavs of Greek origin are registered. In Mallorca there were two brotherhoods of Greek freedmen. Most were men, captives of the Crown of Aragon in their possessions by Greece. In Majorca the slaves obtained freedom with their work. I invite you to search the Internet for a bit about slavery in Mallorca. a greeting
    I believe that the possessions of the Crown of Aragon in Greece were mostly in southern Greece, not in Macedonia where your match comes from and he is not of Greek origin btw.
    But as you already mentioned of Sardinian family story, your subclade might have arrived to Mallorca with a slave from Sardinia during the 14th century.
    However in more ancient times, there might be Balkan connection to the presence of your subclade in Sardinia if the Sardinian story is true and if your subclade is present in Sardinia at all. The Romans had presence in Sardinia, the ancient Greeks did not I believe.
    Target: Aspar_scaled
    Distance: 1.9646% / 0.01964602 | ADC: 1x RC
    57.6 Macedonian
    42.4 Greek_Central_Macedonia

  3. #303
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    We will be waiting for more current samples to come out. We have already contributed our grain of sand by contributing with new SNPs and that if others are found that are positive for them, we will move forward.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    I believe that the possessions of the Crown of Aragon in Greece were mostly in southern Greece, not in Macedonia where your match comes from and he is not of Greek origin btw.
    But as you already mentioned of Sardinian family story, your subclade might have arrived to Mallorca with a slave from Sardinia during the 14th century.
    However in more ancient times, there might be Balkan connection to the presence of your subclade in Sardinia if the Sardinian story is true and if your subclade is present in Sardinia at all. The Romans had presence in Sardinia, the ancient Greeks did not I believe.
    Have you ever heard The Battle of Apros that fought the Almogávares. The first squad of Almogávares faced the Alans and Turks, who were repelled and later fled, leaving the Byzantine infantry exposed on the left flank, which encountered the charge of the first squad of Almogávares and part of the cavalry, while the The rest of the Almogávares carried through the center. In front of the Almogávar onslaught, the infantry fell, finally fleeing. The Thracian and Macedonian cavalry was the only one that was able to maintain its position, facing the Almogávar cavalry and defending a squadron until it was overwhelmed by the rest of the Almogávars entering from the other flank and through the center. At that time they withdrew, with a great loss of troops. The defeat left the Byzantine Empire without an army and the Almogavars dominating most of Thrace. From there there were captives taken to the slave market.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Xisco For This Useful Post:

     Aspar (01-18-2021)

  6. #305
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    Hola Xisco, bienvenido!

    Wasn't one of the Visigothic samples from Iberia a subclade under E-V13 as well? I fear Xisco's terminal subclade may be too recent to give us any certainties, and the closest parallel branch (with the Bulgarian) too distant - there's a huge gap, both in time and geography. We could find many possible explanations. How common are subclades under E-V13 in Sardinia?

    I thought it was strange for an archipelago that was repopulated by Catalans during the Middle Ages to show a somewhat "un-Catalan" trend towards the central/eastern Mediterranean. The Roman/Byzantine presence could explain it, but on the other hand it would have been an older layer of ancestry that was partially replaced by Catalan-speaking individuals during the Reconquista, and looking at modern Catalans (and those two early Medieval ones) that doesn't seem to be their trend within Iberia. Your theory about a more recent presence of individuals from other areas of the Mediterranean explains this trend quite well, it's good to know, I had no idea that had been the case.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6053"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,58.6
    Insular_Celtic_EMA,21.8
    Berber_EMA,11
    Roman_Colonial,8.6

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Riverman (01-18-2021)

  8. #306
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    From there there were captives who were taken to the slave market.

  9. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Hola Xisco, bienvenido!

    Wasn't one of the Visigothic samples from Iberia a subclade under E-V13 as well? I fear Xisco's terminal subclade may be too recent to give us any certainties, and the closest parallel branch (with the Bulgarian) too distant - there's a huge gap, both in time and geography. We could find many possible explanations. How common are subclades under E-V13 in Sardinia?

    I thought it was strange for an archipelago that was repopulated by Catalans during the Middle Ages to show a somewhat "un-Catalan" trend towards the central/eastern Mediterranean. The Roman/Byzantine presence could explain it, but on the other hand it would have been an older layer of ancestry that was partially replaced by Catalan-speaking individuals during the Reconquista, and looking at modern Catalans (and those two early Medieval ones) that doesn't seem to be their trend within Iberia. Your theory about a more recent presence of individuals from other areas of the Mediterranean explains this trend quite well, it's good to know, I had no idea that had been the case.
    Not only were they Catalans, there were a large number of Occitan French who were second in number, Genoese, Navarrese, Sardinian, Castilian, etc ...

  10. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xisco View Post
    Not only were they Catalans, there were a large number of Occitan French who were second in number, Genoese, Navarrese, Sardinian, Castilian, etc ...
    Only the Genoese, of those populations, trend towards the eastern Mediterranean genetically speaking.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6053"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,58.6
    Insular_Celtic_EMA,21.8
    Berber_EMA,11
    Roman_Colonial,8.6

  11. #309
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    Nuestra lengua era occitana, no catalana. Catalan was considered a dialect of Occitan until the end of the 19th century and is still its closest relative today.
    Last edited by Xisco; 01-18-2021 at 11:08 AM.

  12. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xisco View Post
    Nuestra lengua era occitana, no catalana.
    Language aside, since I have limited knowledge of the Balearic islands' history, I suggest you read Bycroft's excellent study on Iberia. It's just a shame she didn't use ancient samples on her analysis, but rather other modern populations that make the models underwhelming.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w


    You can see a cluster analysis done on co-ancestry, Balearic individuals were placed on a branch that split from the Catalan cluster.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6053"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,58.6
    Insular_Celtic_EMA,21.8
    Berber_EMA,11
    Roman_Colonial,8.6

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Riverman (01-18-2021)

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