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Thread: A theory about the origin of E-V13

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    E-L618 in North Africa especially Egypt and countries under occupation ottoman was many soldiers have origin from Balkan (Kouloughlis)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kouloughlis
    Yeah i changed my post as they were fairly new clades except for the basal one in egypt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karagjoz View Post
    Yeah i changed my post as they were fairly new clades except for the basal one in egypt
    You know basal isn't never give info about origin Haplogroup we need ancient DNA
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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    German project for E-BY4793:
    https://riehle.net/dna-3/legions/

    They speculate about a Roman era origin for their haplogroup, but the evidence for the exact origin is still meagre with multiple old branches appearing in Germany and further to the West (British Isles for example). However, I like the approach and that they actually do something to get to the roots. The problem without more NGS testing is that STR values are not reliable enough at a higher distance to come to any conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    German project for E-BY4793:
    https://riehle.net/dna-3/legions/

    They speculate about a Roman era origin for their haplogroup, but the evidence for the exact origin is still meagre with multiple old branches appearing in Germany and further to the West (British Isles for example). However, I like the approach and that they actually do something to get to the roots. The problem without more NGS testing is that STR values are not reliable enough at a higher distance to come to any conclusions.

    Well known and I should say obsolete view about origin of E-V13 branches in Western Europe.
    It is great FTDNA now has these "time trees" which speak for themselves: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY4793/tree

    Positive side is of course their genuine interest in the topic (I mean by people in the project).

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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD View Post
    Indeed. Romanian almost certainly came to the territory of modern Romania and Moldavia from southern Vlach-speaking populations, sometime after 1200 CE.
    The first clear mention of Romanians in Transylvania goes back to 1223 when Andrew II of Hungary gave to Saxon colonists the Transilvanian lands of: "Silva blacorum et bissenorum" - "the woods of the Romanians and the Pechenegs", in the area of modern day Făgăraș. Romanians were also mentioned the first time in modern day western Moldova (cfr. Roman Catholic Diocese of Cumania) in 1234. But, as we can reasonable imagine (as Gesta Hungarorum confirm, if we want belive to it), the presence of "Vlachs" in modern day Romania (at least in the southern part of the country) dated way back XIII century. IMO, Carpathians Mountains were used by romanians sheeperds for centuries; we shouldn't imagine the Danube as a insurmountable frontier. Back in those days didn't even exist the concept of "southern (Danube) Vlachs" or "Northern Vlachs", they were considered as a whole ethnic group from Tatra mountains to Mediterranean Sea.
    Last edited by Andre; 12-02-2022 at 05:34 PM.
    23andme v6.0: 94.8% Greek & Balkan (Romania).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Well known and I should say obsolete view about origin of E-V13 branches in Western Europe.
    It is great FTDNA now has these "time trees" which speak for themselves: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY4793/tree

    Positive side is of course their genuine interest in the topic (I mean by people in the project).
    The amazing thing in this case is that while all the diversity and most branches are clearly North of the Danube-Alps, and must have been so for quite some time everything considered, there is still a Bulgarian representative.
    For some Bulgarian branches I wonder whether they are ancient, what this one in particular could easily be, or whether arrived more recently from Northern groups of E-V13. For some cases its clear (in this case the position is old and basal, therefore might be Carpatho-Balkan/Bulgarian from the LBA-EIA), for others it is not.
    Last edited by Riverman; 12-02-2022 at 05:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The amazing thing in this case is that while all the diversity and most branches are clearly North of the Danube-Alps, and must have been so for quite some time everything considered, there is still a Bulgarian representative.
    For some Bulgarian branches I wonder whether they are ancient, what this one in particular could easily be, or whether arrived more recently from Northern groups of E-V13. For some cases its clear (in this case the position is old and basal, therefore might be Carpatho-Balkan/Bulgarian from the LBA-EIA), for others it is not.
    Thrace and dacia was conquered AFTER iberia, france and britain -
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...rs_and_battles

    The v13 in north and west europe has NOTHING to do with thracians, it was recruited from western balkans, macedonia and greece and the rest of it came from urnfield prior
    Last edited by Karagjoz; 12-02-2022 at 10:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karagjoz View Post
    Thrace and dacia was conquered AFTER iberia, france and britain -
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...rs_and_battles

    The v13 in north and west europe has NOTHING to do with thracians, it was recruited from western balkans, macedonia and greece and the rest of it came from urnfield prior
    While I agree with Urnfield-Hallstatt-La Tene being far more important than any later dispersal for the main branches in Northern and Western Europe, it is not true that Dacians and Thracians played no role at all. They played a role with the Romans and later with tribal groups, especially Germanics and Slavs, which had picked them up on their way or in the Carpathian neighbourhood.

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    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y142966/
    Okay i see now in Live a YFull there update in subclade E-Y142966
    What age TMRCA do you think ?
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y142966/
    Okay i see now in Live a YFull there update in subclade E-Y142966
    What age TMRCA do you think ?
    About 700 AD probably. That's a Medieval migrant most likely, if he is British. But that's just a wild guess of mine, let's just wait for the result on YFull.
    Last edited by Riverman; 12-03-2022 at 03:01 AM.

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