ADN des anciens romains

[Ruderico]

Il est fort possible que beaucoup de ces Italiques de l'âge du fer soient des proxys pour nos ancêtres celtes
Mais cela donne déjà une idée.

I'm not quite sure, they appear close-ish to IA Iberians at first glace, but in reality not really that much. I doubt Celtic-speakers from modern France had the Iran_N-related ancestry they had, considering IA_Iberians didn't either, and the outlier from Empuries was close to modern Bretons which may be a hint of what people from the north side of the Pyrenees looked like.

https://i.postimg.cc/cddjWDyH/ironage.png


We've had this discussion before a while back, if I remember correctly fabriceE and I agreed that our prediction would be somewhere in between the Hallstatt sample and the "Celt" from Empuries. I'm not expecting them all be to totally homogeneous, some will be more neolithic shifted, others more Steppe shifted (like Iberia was/is)


Edit: ph2ter had the trouble of making a tsne plot with the new samples, it's pretty great. Many of you are in it
https://i.imgur.com/D8bKKPp.png

[Helgenes50]

En ne gardant plus que Rome imperiale comme proxy pour l'apport Romain, cela devient plus clair et cohérent


Target: French_Corsica
Distance: 0.8302% / 0.00830219

46.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
20.4 Iberia_East_IA
16.2 Iberia_North_CA
14.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
2.2 Hallstatt_Bylany
0.4 England_Roman

Target: French_South
Distance: 0.7224% / 0.00722384

34.2 Iberia_East_IA
30.0 England_Roman
21.2 Iberia_North_CA
5.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
4.0 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
3.2 Hallstatt_Bylany
1.6 England_Roman_o

Target: French_Provence
Distance: 0.3845% / 0.00384455

31.4 Iberia_East_IA
27.0 England_Roman
23.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
17.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna

Target: French_East
Distance: 0.4167% / 0.00416746

34.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
24.8 England_Roman
19.8 Iberia_East_IA
13.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
5.2 Hallstatt_Bylany
1.4 England_Roman_o
0.8 Iberia_North_CA

Target: French
Distance: 0.6038% / 0.00603847

43.0 England_Roman
23.6 Iberia_East_IA
14.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
13.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
4.8 Hallstatt_Bylany
1.2 Iberia_North_CA

Target: French_Brittany
Distance: 0.8394% / 0.00839392

67.2 England_Roman
19.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
13.0 Iberia_East_IA

[Helgenes50]

Maintenant pour les individus
Cela va faire plaisir à Angles et à sa Mum ( Rome Imperiale= 0)

Angle_mum
Distance: 1.7514% / 0.01751444

37.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
34.6 England_Roman
14.8 Hallstatt_Bylany
13.0 Iberia_East_IA
0.2 England_Roman_o

angle
Distance: 1.8310% / 0.01830964

51.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
26.6 England_Roman
13.8 Iberia_East_IA
8.4 Hallstatt_Bylany


Helgi_mum
Distance: 1.2808% / 0.01280816

67.4 England_Roman
20.8 Iberia_East_IA
6.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
4.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.0 England_Roman_o

Helgi
Distance: 1.1178% / 0.01117774

49.8 England_Roman
29.6 Iberia_East_IA
17.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
2.2 England_Roman_o
1.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial

CC_data-2017-11-11_scaled
Distance: 1.4574% / 0.01457377

59.2 England_Roman
18.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
18.0 Iberia_East_IA
4.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
0.2 England_Roman_o


Camulogene_Rix_scaled
Distance: 1.0013% / 0.01001345

29.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
25.6 England_Roman
16.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
13.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
12.2 Iberia_East_IA
2.6 England_Roman_o
0.2 Iberia_North_CA

Equilbey_scaled
Distance: 1.9701% / 0.01970083

25.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
25.4 England_Roman
24.8 Iberia_East_IA
11.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
8.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
4.6 England_Roman_o

Fabrice_E_scaled
Distance: 1.9820% / 0.01981964

38.0 England_Roman
34.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
26.6 Iberia_East_IA
1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial


Fabrice_mum
Distance: 1.5496% / 0.01549553

54.6 England_Roman
27.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
12.0 Iberia_East_IA
5.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial

AndourWife_scaled
Distance: 1.7304% / 0.01730365

36.0 Iberia_East_IA
26.4 England_Roman
18.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
10.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
8.0 Iberia_North_CA

Andour_scaled
Distance: 1.9597% / 0.01959707

26.8 England_Roman
16.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
16.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
15.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
13.0 Iberia_East_IA
12.2 Iberia_North_CA

[anglesqueville]

Helgi: haha! Pas de collabos chez mes ancêtres, 2000 ans de résistance à l'occupation! Bon, blague à part j'ai envoyé un PM à David pour qu'il partage les données. Je ne peux cacher que j'ai toujours malgré tout une certaine méfiance envers nMonte-G25. Hors contexte, et hors topic, j'aimerais bien avoir votre avis à tous sur un étrange phénomène mis à jour par Andour avec Vahaduo, et partiellement confirmé par moi avec qpAdm: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post619376 . Mon petit doigt me dit que c'est une bêtise, mais je ne vois pas comment refuser ces analyses.

[Camulogène Rix]

Helgi: haha! Pas de collabos chez mes ancêtres, 2000 ans de résistance à l'occupation! B.

Jaloux en plus tu es plus fort en latin et en grec que moi !

[Agamemnon]

Je rêvais de pouvoir obtenir des fits convaincants et proches de la réalité pour moi en utilisant seulement des individus anciens... Ce jour est enfin arrivé

[Dalluin]

Maintenant pour les individus
Cela va faire plaisir à Angles et à sa Mum ( Rome Imperiale= 0)

Angle_mum
Distance: 1.7514% / 0.01751444

37.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
34.6 England_Roman
14.8 Hallstatt_Bylany
13.0 Iberia_East_IA
0.2 England_Roman_o

angle
Distance: 1.8310% / 0.01830964

51.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
26.6 England_Roman
13.8 Iberia_East_IA
8.4 Hallstatt_Bylany


Helgi_mum
Distance: 1.2808% / 0.01280816

67.4 England_Roman
20.8 Iberia_East_IA
6.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
4.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.0 England_Roman_o

Helgi
Distance: 1.1178% / 0.01117774

49.8 England_Roman
29.6 Iberia_East_IA
17.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
2.2 England_Roman_o
1.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial

CC_data-2017-11-11_scaled
Distance: 1.4574% / 0.01457377

59.2 England_Roman
18.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
18.0 Iberia_East_IA
4.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
0.2 England_Roman_o


Camulogene_Rix_scaled
Distance: 1.0013% / 0.01001345

29.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
25.6 England_Roman
16.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
13.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
12.2 Iberia_East_IA
2.6 England_Roman_o
0.2 Iberia_North_CA

Equilbey_scaled
Distance: 1.9701% / 0.01970083

25.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
25.4 England_Roman
24.8 Iberia_East_IA
11.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
8.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
4.6 England_Roman_o

Fabrice_E_scaled
Distance: 1.9820% / 0.01981964

38.0 England_Roman
34.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
26.6 Iberia_East_IA
1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial


Fabrice_mum
Distance: 1.5496% / 0.01549553

54.6 England_Roman
27.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
12.0 Iberia_East_IA
5.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial

AndourWife_scaled
Distance: 1.7304% / 0.01730365

36.0 Iberia_East_IA
26.4 England_Roman
18.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
10.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
8.0 Iberia_North_CA

Andour_scaled
Distance: 1.9597% / 0.01959707

26.8 England_Roman
16.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
16.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
15.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
13.0 Iberia_East_IA
12.2 Iberia_North_CA

8 % c'est un bon pourcentage de ''Trahison'' !! La collaboration c'est toujours avec modération

[Ruderico]

Well, now that we have proper Roman samples I don't think I really want anything else as far as ancient samples are concerned, perhaps pre-Roman samples from West Iberia (Lusitani and post-Tartessos from the SW) and France+Alps so we get to see ancient Celts/Gauls. Otherwise I think I'm done with these topics until new technologies show up in new studies.
I may take a break and stick to moderation only, ta ta

[Genetique]

Well, now that we have proper Roman samples I don't think I really want anything else as far as ancient samples are concerned, perhaps pre-Roman samples from West Iberia (Lusitani and post-Tartessos from the SW) and France+Alps so we get to see ancient Celts/Gauls. Otherwise I think I'm done with these topics until new technologies show up in new studies.
I may take a break and stick to moderation only, ta ta

Samnites, Bruttian, Lucanians, Osques, Messapians, Iapigi, Sicels, Elymian samples !

[jstephan]

Maintenant pour les individus
Cela va faire plaisir à Angles et à sa Mum ( Rome Imperiale= 0)

Salut Helgenes50,

Aurais-tu l'amabilité de générer ce rapport avec mes coordonées :

J'ai toujours secrètement rêvé d'avoir quelquechose de Romain en moi

Ce que l'on peut retenir de cette dernière étude, c'est que le Français moyen porte en moyenne 15% d'ADN de ces anciens Romains et qu'ils se sont principalement implantés dans le Sud-Est (Provence et Corse) et presque pas dans le Nord de la France, c'est bien ça ?

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jerome_scaled,0.130897,0.141159,0.059962,0.037145, 0.040623,0.017012,0.008695,0.003923,0.003681,0.005 832,-0.001461,0.002847,-0.019475,-0.010872,0.022937,0.003182,-0.007432,-0.000887,0.003017,0.001626,0.004866,0.00272,-0.003697,0.01205,0.001796

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jerome,0.0115,0.0139,0.0159,0.0115,0.0132,0.0061,0 .0037,0.0017,0.0018,0.0032,-0.0009,0.0019,-0.0131,-0.0079,0.0169,0.0024,-0.0057,-0.0007,0.0024,0.0013,0.0039,0.0022,-0.003,0.01,0.0015