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Thread: ADN des anciens romains

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    Il est fort possible que beaucoup de ces Italiques de l'âge du fer soient des proxys pour nos ancêtres celtes
    Mais cela donne déjà une idée.
    I'm not quite sure, they appear close-ish to IA Iberians at first glace, but in reality not really that much. I doubt Celtic-speakers from modern France had the Iran_N-related ancestry they had, considering IA_Iberians didn't either, and the outlier from Empuries was close to modern Bretons which may be a hint of what people from the north side of the Pyrenees looked like.

    https://i.postimg.cc/cddjWDyH/ironage.png


    We've had this discussion before a while back, if I remember correctly fabriceE and I agreed that our prediction would be somewhere in between the Hallstatt sample and the "Celt" from Empuries. I'm not expecting them all be to totally homogeneous, some will be more neolithic shifted, others more Steppe shifted (like Iberia was/is)


    Edit: ph2ter had the trouble of making a tsne plot with the new samples, it's pretty great. Many of you are in it
    https://i.imgur.com/D8bKKPp.png
    Last edited by Ruderico; 11-11-2019 at 12:55 PM. Reason: new plot
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1100AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6023"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA+Hallstatt,82.2
    Berber_EMA,10
    Rome_Imperial,7
    Levant_Roman,0.8

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  3. #22
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    Normandie France Bretagne
    En ne gardant plus que Rome imperiale comme proxy pour l'apport Romain, cela devient plus clair et cohérent


    Target: French_Corsica
    Distance: 0.8302% / 0.00830219

    46.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    20.4 Iberia_East_IA
    16.2 Iberia_North_CA
    14.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    2.2 Hallstatt_Bylany
    0.4 England_Roman

    Target: French_South
    Distance: 0.7224% / 0.00722384

    34.2 Iberia_East_IA
    30.0 England_Roman
    21.2 Iberia_North_CA
    5.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    4.0 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    3.2 Hallstatt_Bylany
    1.6 England_Roman_o

    Target: French_Provence
    Distance: 0.3845% / 0.00384455

    31.4 Iberia_East_IA
    27.0 England_Roman
    23.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    17.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna

    Target: French_East
    Distance: 0.4167% / 0.00416746

    34.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    24.8 England_Roman
    19.8 Iberia_East_IA
    13.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    5.2 Hallstatt_Bylany
    1.4 England_Roman_o
    0.8 Iberia_North_CA

    Target: French
    Distance: 0.6038% / 0.00603847

    43.0 England_Roman
    23.6 Iberia_East_IA
    14.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    13.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    4.8 Hallstatt_Bylany
    1.2 Iberia_North_CA

    Target: French_Brittany
    Distance: 0.8394% / 0.00839392

    67.2 England_Roman
    19.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    13.0 Iberia_East_IA
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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  5. #23
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    Maintenant pour les individus
    Cela va faire plaisir à Angles et à sa Mum ( Rome Imperiale= 0)

    Angle_mum
    Distance: 1.7514% / 0.01751444

    37.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    34.6 England_Roman
    14.8 Hallstatt_Bylany
    13.0 Iberia_East_IA
    0.2 England_Roman_o

    angle
    Distance: 1.8310% / 0.01830964

    51.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    26.6 England_Roman
    13.8 Iberia_East_IA
    8.4 Hallstatt_Bylany


    Helgi_mum
    Distance: 1.2808% / 0.01280816

    67.4 England_Roman
    20.8 Iberia_East_IA
    6.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    4.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    1.0 England_Roman_o

    Helgi
    Distance: 1.1178% / 0.01117774

    49.8 England_Roman
    29.6 Iberia_East_IA
    17.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    2.2 England_Roman_o
    1.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial

    CC_data-2017-11-11_scaled
    Distance: 1.4574% / 0.01457377

    59.2 England_Roman
    18.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    18.0 Iberia_East_IA
    4.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.2 England_Roman_o


    Camulogene_Rix_scaled
    Distance: 1.0013% / 0.01001345

    29.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    25.6 England_Roman
    16.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    13.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
    12.2 Iberia_East_IA
    2.6 England_Roman_o
    0.2 Iberia_North_CA

    Equilbey_scaled
    Distance: 1.9701% / 0.01970083

    25.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    25.4 England_Roman
    24.8 Iberia_East_IA
    11.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
    8.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    4.6 England_Roman_o

    Fabrice_E_scaled
    Distance: 1.9820% / 0.01981964

    38.0 England_Roman
    34.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    26.6 Iberia_East_IA
    1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial


    Fabrice_mum
    Distance: 1.5496% / 0.01549553

    54.6 England_Roman
    27.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    12.0 Iberia_East_IA
    5.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
    1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial

    AndourWife_scaled
    Distance: 1.7304% / 0.01730365

    36.0 Iberia_East_IA
    26.4 England_Roman
    18.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    10.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    8.0 Iberia_North_CA

    Andour_scaled
    Distance: 1.9597% / 0.01959707

    26.8 England_Roman
    16.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    16.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    15.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
    13.0 Iberia_East_IA
    12.2 Iberia_North_CA
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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  7. #24
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    Helgi: haha! Pas de collabos chez mes ancêtres, 2000 ans de résistance à l'occupation! Bon, blague à part j'ai envoyé un PM à David pour qu'il partage les données. Je ne peux cacher que j'ai toujours malgré tout une certaine méfiance envers nMonte-G25. Hors contexte, et hors topic, j'aimerais bien avoir votre avis à tous sur un étrange phénomène mis à jour par Andour avec Vahaduo, et partiellement confirmé par moi avec qpAdm: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post619376 . Mon petit doigt me dit que c'est une bêtise, mais je ne vois pas comment refuser ces analyses.
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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Helgi: haha! Pas de collabos chez mes ancêtres, 2000 ans de résistance à l'occupation! B.
    Jaloux en plus tu es plus fort en latin et en grec que moi !

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  11. #26
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    Je rêvais de pouvoir obtenir des fits convaincants et proches de la réalité pour moi en utilisant seulement des individus anciens... Ce jour est enfin arrivé

    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    Maintenant pour les individus
    Cela va faire plaisir à Angles et à sa Mum ( Rome Imperiale= 0)

    Angle_mum
    Distance: 1.7514% / 0.01751444

    37.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    34.6 England_Roman
    14.8 Hallstatt_Bylany
    13.0 Iberia_East_IA
    0.2 England_Roman_o

    angle
    Distance: 1.8310% / 0.01830964

    51.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    26.6 England_Roman
    13.8 Iberia_East_IA
    8.4 Hallstatt_Bylany


    Helgi_mum
    Distance: 1.2808% / 0.01280816

    67.4 England_Roman
    20.8 Iberia_East_IA
    6.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    4.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    1.0 England_Roman_o

    Helgi
    Distance: 1.1178% / 0.01117774

    49.8 England_Roman
    29.6 Iberia_East_IA
    17.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    2.2 England_Roman_o
    1.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial

    CC_data-2017-11-11_scaled
    Distance: 1.4574% / 0.01457377

    59.2 England_Roman
    18.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    18.0 Iberia_East_IA
    4.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.2 England_Roman_o


    Camulogene_Rix_scaled
    Distance: 1.0013% / 0.01001345

    29.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    25.6 England_Roman
    16.4 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    13.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
    12.2 Iberia_East_IA
    2.6 England_Roman_o
    0.2 Iberia_North_CA

    Equilbey_scaled
    Distance: 1.9701% / 0.01970083

    25.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    25.4 England_Roman
    24.8 Iberia_East_IA
    11.6 Hallstatt_Bylany
    8.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    4.6 England_Roman_o

    Fabrice_E_scaled
    Distance: 1.9820% / 0.01981964

    38.0 England_Roman
    34.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    26.6 Iberia_East_IA
    1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial


    Fabrice_mum
    Distance: 1.5496% / 0.01549553

    54.6 England_Roman
    27.2 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    12.0 Iberia_East_IA
    5.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
    1.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial

    AndourWife_scaled
    Distance: 1.7304% / 0.01730365

    36.0 Iberia_East_IA
    26.4 England_Roman
    18.8 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    10.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    8.0 Iberia_North_CA

    Andour_scaled
    Distance: 1.9597% / 0.01959707

    26.8 England_Roman
    16.6 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    16.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    15.0 Hallstatt_Bylany
    13.0 Iberia_East_IA
    12.2 Iberia_North_CA
    8 % c'est un bon pourcentage de ''Trahison'' !! La collaboration c'est toujours avec modération
    Pangea - Pannotia - Rodinia - Columbia - Kernoland - Ur - Vaalbara - ??

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  15. #28
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    Well, now that we have proper Roman samples I don't think I really want anything else as far as ancient samples are concerned, perhaps pre-Roman samples from West Iberia (Lusitani and post-Tartessos from the SW) and France+Alps so we get to see ancient Celts/Gauls. Otherwise I think I'm done with these topics until new technologies show up in new studies.
    I may take a break and stick to moderation only, ta ta
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1100AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
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    [1] "distance%=1.6023"

    Ruderico

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    Berber_EMA,10
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    Levant_Roman,0.8

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Well, now that we have proper Roman samples I don't think I really want anything else as far as ancient samples are concerned, perhaps pre-Roman samples from West Iberia (Lusitani and post-Tartessos from the SW) and France+Alps so we get to see ancient Celts/Gauls. Otherwise I think I'm done with these topics until new technologies show up in new studies.
    I may take a break and stick to moderation only, ta ta
    Samnites, Bruttian, Lucanians, Osques, Messapians, Iapigi, Sicels, Elymian samples !

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    Maintenant pour les individus
    Cela va faire plaisir à Angles et à sa Mum ( Rome Imperiale= 0)
    Salut Helgenes50,

    Aurais-tu l'amabilité de générer ce rapport avec mes coordonées :

    J'ai toujours secrètement rêvé d'avoir quelquechose de Romain en moi

    Ce que l'on peut retenir de cette dernière étude, c'est que le Français moyen porte en moyenne 15% d'ADN de ces anciens Romains et qu'ils se sont principalement implantés dans le Sud-Est (Provence et Corse) et presque pas dans le Nord de la France, c'est bien ça ?

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jerome_scaled,0.130897,0.141159,0.059962,0.037145, 0.040623,0.017012,0.008695,0.003923,0.003681,0.005 832,-0.001461,0.002847,-0.019475,-0.010872,0.022937,0.003182,-0.007432,-0.000887,0.003017,0.001626,0.004866,0.00272,-0.003697,0.01205,0.001796

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jerome,0.0115,0.0139,0.0159,0.0115,0.0132,0.0061,0 .0037,0.0017,0.0018,0.0032,-0.0009,0.0019,-0.0131,-0.0079,0.0169,0.0024,-0.0057,-0.0007,0.0024,0.0013,0.0039,0.0022,-0.003,0.01,0.0015
    Last edited by jstephan; 11-11-2019 at 03:29 PM.

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