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Thread: R1b-BY168

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    Cool R1b-BY168

    BY168 is a SNP newly discovered by FTDNA to be between FGC5572 and BY166 (Z18021), like so:

    M207 > M173 > M343 > L754 > L389 > P297 > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > Z290 > L21

    > DF13 > Z39589 > DF41 > FGC5572 > BY168 > BY166 (Z18021).

    Another newly discovered SNP, this one downstream of BY168 and parallel to BY166, is FT115269, like so (just to make things obvious):

    M207 > M173 > M343 > L754 > L389 > P297 > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > Z290 > L21

    > DF13 > Z39589 > DF41 > FGC5572 > BY168 > FT115269.

    This is really interesting to me, since my terminal SNP is downstream of BY166 (Z18021), and up until just recently BY168, BY170, and BY171 were part of the BY166 block. Now those three SNPs form a block just upstream of BY166 and FT115269.

    I really would like to find out who else besides our group of BY166+ guys is BY168+.

    I made this simplified tree, with, in most cases, single SNPs representing large blocks of SNPs. The red arrows indicate the fact that there are men currently occupying those positions who should eventually get SNP results further downstream.

    R1b-BY168 Tree.jpg
    Last edited by rms2; 11-10-2019 at 04:13 PM.

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    Found the two guys who are BY168>FT115269: surname Hudson, kits 32075 and 121052, readily visible on the public website of the R1b-DF41 Project.

    Their haplotypes are not in the 41-1123 haplotype cluster, which is characterized by BY168>BY166 (aka Z18021).

    I'll run the SAPP tool on all this when I get the chance.

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    I ran all the members of the R1b-BY166 and Subclades Project with at least 111 STR markers through the SAPP Tool with the two Hudsons mentioned above. Interesting stuff.

    SAPP gives a tmrca for BY168 of c. 650 BC, with a range of 850-500 BC. That makes sense, because the Hudson haplotypes, which are BY168+ but BY166-, are quite distant from the BY168>BY166+ haplotypes, with a range of 23-36 off at 111 markers.

    It supplied a tmrca for BY166 (aka Z18021) of c. 1450 AD, with a range of 1250-1650 AD. That makes sense, as well, since that predates the adoption of permanent surnames in Wales but is also recent enough to account for the relatively tight haplotype cluster within the BY166 subclade.

    If the SAPP tool is right, BY168 could eventually show up in Iron Age and later samples, probably among British Celts.
    Last edited by rms2; 11-30-2019 at 07:56 PM.

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    I revised my BY168 tree to include some of the tmrcas from the SAPP run and to make it look a little nicer.

    R1b-BY168 Tree.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Found the two guys who are BY168>FT115269: surname Hudson, kits 32075 and 121052, readily visible on the public website of the R1b-DF41 Project.

    Their haplotypes are not in the 41-1123 haplotype cluster, which is characterized by BY168>BY166 (aka Z18021).

    I'll run the SAPP tool on all this when I get the chance.
    Rich,

    Do you know where these Hudson lineages originate?
    yDNA: R1b-BY17850 (England?)
    Maternal grandfather (MDKA: Johannes Nicholas Schaefer, Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) - yDNA: R1b-U106, mtDNA: T2b
    Maternal grandmother (MDKA: Angelina Centrella, Avellino, Campania, Italia) - mtDNA: HV4a1


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopfjäger View Post
    Rich,

    Do you know where these Hudson lineages originate?
    They can only get as far as North Carolina in the 18th century, but each man has a separate y-dna mdka, and they are three off each other at 111 markers.

    From what I have read, the surname is most common in Yorkshire.

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    This stuff is fun and has been for years now. Worth every penny. And I’ve been really blessed with a lot of good, informative matches and even a couple of major miracles.

    Sitting out on my backyard deck right now smoking a salmon and baking some potatoes on my grill/smoker, even though it’s cold as hell and wet. I’m fortified with brandy and Guinness, however, so I’m feeling no weather. Just feeling grateful to God for all my genetic testing blessings, which are many.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-01-2019 at 09:47 PM.

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    BY168

    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    This is really interesting to me, since my terminal SNP is downstream of BY166 (Z18021), and up until just recently BY168, BY170, and BY171 were part of the BY166 block. Now those three SNPs form a block just upstream of BY166 and FT115269.

    I really would like to find out who else besides our group of BY166+ guys is BY168+.

    R1b-BY168 Tree.jpg

    I just got my brother's results and we are just downstream of FT115269. FTDNA has assigned us as R-FT61490. But I take it Hudson's terminal SNP is FT115269? So are in fact downstream of them, or side by side? FTDNA Kit is 142395.

    Thanks for any help you can give.

    Sean

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    Quote Originally Posted by girlsean View Post
    I just got my brother's results and we are just downstream of FT115269. FTDNA has assigned us as R-FT61490. But I take it Hudson's terminal SNP is FT115269? So are in fact downstream of them, or side by side? FTDNA Kit is 142395.

    Thanks for any help you can give.

    Sean
    Wow! Thanks for posting here!

    Apparently FT61490 is actually upstream of FT115269, and your y-dna line is negative (ancestral) for FT115269. So, to be clear, FT115269 is downstream of FT61490.

    I included your brother's haplotype in another run of the SAPP tool. It brought the tmrca date for BY168 down to c. 550 BC (range 850-300 BC). The tmrca date for FT61490, which you all share with the Hudsons, is c. 850 AD (800-950 AD). The Hudsons' FT115269 has a tmrca date of c. 1650 AD (1650-1700 AD).

    I see another Dixon there in the DF41 Project who is only off your brother by 1 at 67 markers. It would be really helpful if he did the Big Y-700. Then you would probably get more resolution downstream of FT61490, but for now you're stuck at FT61490. Now would be a great time for him to upgrade, since FTDNA has its holiday sale going on.

    Here's the SAPP tree with your brother's 111-marker haplotype in it. None of the info includes anything that is not already on public FTDNA web sites.

    SAPP Tree_BY168 and subclades_14 Dec 2019.png
    Last edited by rms2; 12-14-2019 at 04:24 PM.

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