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Thread: North sea populations using G25.

  1. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    So you can say the genetic heritage of the Celts in the UK is not as pronounced as in southern Germany by the strong mingling with the Anglo-Saxons?
    The aspect is more cultural than genetic, that is to say that throughout Europe there was a strong Celtic culture with only genetic differences among Iberian Celts, Central Europe or England
    The Anglo-Saxons share also a genetic heritage with the Celts......starting with the Bel Beakers and probably added with BA developments.

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  3. #592
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    double---oops!
    Last edited by Finn; 12-10-2019 at 07:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    The Anglo-Saxons share also a genetic heritage with the Celts......starting with the Bel Beakers and probably added with BA developments.
    I know, I mean just because the genetic mix of British Celts and the newcomers because Anglo-Saxons came but were in the majority, because British are not as strong Celtic as the Bavariansl
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  7. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    I know, I mean just because the genetic mix of British Celts and the newcomers because Anglo-Saxons came but were in the majority, because British are not as strong Celtic as the Bavariansl
    I know you're being light-hearted, but I think what you said earlier about culture is important. The insular Celts and the Bretons are the only ones to have built on and preserved the original culture and identity, including language, art and music over the last couple of thousand years, so they are the only "Celts" left today. (The Galicians also have have a claim to a place at the table.) After all, you could say we're all ultimately predominantly of ancient African descent, but that's all as academic as a modern Bavarian's link to the Celts.
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  9. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    I know you're being light-hearted, but I think what you said earlier about culture is important. The insular Celts and the Bretons are the only ones to have built on and preserved the original culture and identity, including language, art and music over the last couple of thousand years, so they are the only "Celts" left today. (The Galicians also have have a claim to a place at the table.) After all, you could say we're all ultimately predominantly of ancient African descent, but that's all as academic as a modern Bavarian's link to the Celts.
    Only language really is what makes Celtic areas today Celtic. Without the language there are really no Celts and this is the Celtic League definition and I'd have to agree with them. Otherwise how do you define what Celts are? Anyway a bit OT but a very interesting question.
    Last edited by Jessie; 12-11-2019 at 02:33 AM.

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  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Only language really is what makes people Celtic areas today Celtic. Without the language there are really no Celts and this is the Celtic League definition and I'd have to agree with them. Otherwise how do you define what Celts are? Anyway a bit OT but a very interesting question.
    Yes, the North Sea populations are all very similar as we've seen here, but ultimately it does boil down to language and the accompanying cultural trappings over the centuries. It's really about that overall living tradition as part of who you are. But the more the merrier if people want to celebrate and claim the Celtic past. I'm all for it. Our North Sea populations really are a tiny corner of the world.
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    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  13. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Yes, the North Sea populations are all very similar as we've seen here, but ultimately it does boil down to language and the accompanying cultural trappings over the centuries. It's really about that overall living tradition as part of who you are. But the more the merrier if people want to celebrate and claim the Celtic past. I'm all for it. Our North Sea populations really are a tiny corner of the world.
    Celts are a bit of a mystery and quite controversial for some people. I find discussions about the Celts very interesting naturally enough as people use that label for Celtic Fringe populations. What is interesting is how did Celtic languages get to Britain and Ireland and was there a movement of Celts into these areas. The more you think about it the more complicated it gets. Questions that are interesting are whether there was any Pan-Celticity or whether it was just a catchall name for populations that the Romans labelled in contrast to the Germanics. I presume they used language but I haven't looked into it too extensively. I notice that people call all R1b people Celtic as well which is of course not accurate. Also with this thread who are North-sea populations?

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  15. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Celts are a bit of a mystery and quite controversial for some people. I find discussions about the Celts very interesting naturally enough as people use that label for Celtic Fringe populations. What is interesting is how did Celtic languages get to Britain and Ireland and was there a movement of Celts into these areas. The more you think about it the more complicated it gets. Questions that are interesting are whether there was any Pan-Celticity or whether it was just a catchall name for populations that the Romans labelled in contrast to the Germanics. I presume they used language but I haven't looked into it too extensively. I notice that people call all R1b people Celtic as well which is of course not accurate. Also with this thread who are North-sea populations?
    The last one is quite easy, the core of it are people who live along the North Sea. And the Irish? Not North Sea people as such, but influenced by the North Sea people....
    And certainly it were catch all words Celtic and Germanic, but the Romantic thinkers stated that it represented a kind of soul or spirit. This gave it a different shift.
    And of course we all (some more some less) have a desire to a kind of belonging....nothing wrong with that. IMO it becomes more dangerous if it is going to have elements of stress on purity and exclusion ('we' and 'them'). You see it already with thing as Y-DNA (how weird is that !?).
    I have always in my thought that the classification we make with our models, this can be misused....for the case of "we" against "them". I'm tremendous curios to detect clusters but I keep this in mind.
    In genetic sense in whole (NW)Europe there are some genetic clusters, but they are shades/hues in a large coherent palette.
    Last edited by Finn; 12-11-2019 at 10:08 AM.

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  17. #599
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    I don't think we can say today Bavarians are more "Celt" than the "Celtic" British people.
    What we can imagine is that Celts, already a mix, colonized diverse regions with diverse background. More Atlantic Neolithic in Britain, more LBTK Neolithic in S-Germany, more Atlantic exchanges in Britain, later Slavs input in Germany, not only in East, but also in Baviera. The today English people are not so homogenous, see history, spite some studies results based upon clustering, a dangerous tool: in more than a PCA they extend from Celtic regions to Germanic ones, as well Souhtwest ones as Northwest ones. Norwegians overlap a bit with SOME English people as with SOME Germans, not all of them.
    &: today "Celts" of the Isles have surely underwent a big enough genetic drift by isolation, putting them farther from their continental "cousins" than they ought to be.

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  19. #600
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    Last edited by Urheimat; 12-12-2019 at 10:32 AM.

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