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Thread: Has Ulster Scots dna been “bred” out?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    So why is my Irish so high then?
    It is very difficult to tell Scottish from Irish by dna testing. All the major dna companies lump them together so really paper trail would be your best bet. I don't really think they are able to do this satisfactorily with present dna testing. I do believe they can tell them apart with finescale and other methods but no dna testing company will offer this sort of test. Personally your best bet might be to contact some of the people involved in some of the dna studies that work out of UCD in Dublin. Otherwise I don't believe this can be done.

    You obviously have some Scottish ancestry but a dna test isn't going to be able to sort this out from your Irish ancestry. Did you get a Scottish or Northern Irish GC at Ancestry? That's also a good way of telling Scots from Irish with the Genetic Communities.

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  3. #22
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    I got both GC's.




    No Southern GC's which you would expect based on the LivingDNA results.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    I got both GC's.




    No Southern GC's which you would expect based on the LivingDNA results.
    I think that shows you have definite Scots ancestry. Don't worry about LivingDNA they aren't accurate. The GCs from Ancestry are quite good.

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  7. #24
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    It's very different to LD though.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    It's very different to LD though.
    Yes but LD isn't accurate. All Irish people get significant British results on LDA. Personally I don't think any dna company will be successful with trying to pinpoint ancestry to that degree. They will either make all Irish 100% like other dna companies but then give all sorts of other people some false Irish results. It's always either overfitting or underfitting. Ancestry appear to be doing a pretty good job with their GCs. My Heritage is going to be doing an overhaul of their results and will also use something like GCs in their results so it remains to be seen how successful they will be. I'm still looking forward to it though.

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  10. #26
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    Well, I didn't get too much British lol.

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Yes but LD isn't accurate. All Irish people get significant British results on LDA. Personally I don't think any dna company will be successful with trying to pinpoint ancestry to that degree. They will either make all Irish 100% like other dna companies but then give all sorts of other people some false Irish results. It's always either overfitting or underfitting. Ancestry appear to be doing a pretty good job with their GCs. My Heritage is going to be doing an overhaul of their results and will also use something like GCs in their results so it remains to be seen how successful they will be. I'm still looking forward to it though.


    i am supposed to be 29% Irish according Living DNA
    Nonsense
    G25 is more plausible:


    Distance to: Trelvern


    Code:
    0.01241020	French_Brittany
    0.01258867	Welsh
    0.01282019	French_Rennes_Bretagne
    0.01324841	English_Cornwall
    0.01450093	Scottish
    0.01473614	English
    0.01491542	Belgian
    0.01547404	Orcadian
    0.01549221	Irish
    0.01584263	French_Nord
    0.01647926	French_Paris
    0.01679255	Dutch
    0.01732476	Norwegian
    0.01752579	Shetlandic
    0.01832212	Welsh_o
    0.01869380	Icelandic
    0.01877229	French_Alsace
    0.01878996	Swiss_German
    0.01902042	French_Occitanie
    0.02039123	French_Auvergne
    0.02043774	German
    0.02178803	French_Prov_Marseille
    0.02186493	Swiss_French
    0.02206387	French_Provence
    0.02237486	Swedish
    0.02252271	Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.02502018	Spanish_Penedes
    0.02526213	Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.02530365	Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.02556705	Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.02572064	Spanish_Lleida
    0.02592788	Spanish_Navarra
    0.02593822	Spanish_Girona
    0.02597393	Spanish_Barcelones
    0.02606188	Spanish_Mallorca
    0.02648497	Spanish_Eivissa
    0.02704689	Spanish_Aragon
    0.02727391	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
    0.02736918	Spanish_Alacant
    0.02772874	Spanish_Valencia
    0.02775418	Portuguese
    0.02778011	Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
    0.02796159	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
    0.02796473	Spanish_Cantabria
    0.02804301	Spanish_Baleares
    0.02835593	Spanish_Cataluna
    0.02882567	Austrian
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    0.03112504	Spanish_Pais_Vasco
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    0.03150159	Spanish_Asturias
    0.03171350	Italian_Lombardy
    0.03219775	German_East
    0.03228698	Italian_Bergamo
    0.03239280	Italian_Piedmont
    0.03280105	Basque_Spanish
    0.03292230	Basque_French
    0.03319613	Swiss_Italian
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    0.03457481	Spanish_Soria
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    0.03745132	Italian_Umbria
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    0.03910256	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige_o
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    0.04394679	Italian_Northeast_o
    0.04400195	Italian_Naples
    0.04406016	Italian_Basilica
    0.04417490	Italian_Campania

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Well, I didn't get too much British lol.
    Again, Scottish and Irish populations have a shared history that stretches much further back in time than the plantations. The obvious shared ancestry was made quite obvious with the recent papers (especially the most recent one that sktibo provided the link to).

    It's not really far-fetched for you to have a such a high Irish result, we do know that a portion of the Catholic population converted to Protestantism at varying points.

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  15. #29
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    A lot of people here have chimed in to dismiss Living DNA's results and with that I do not disagree. As I said above in previous posts I'll take Ancestry's results over Living DNA's all day. However...
    Living DNA's results have large flaws but like all tests it isn't like they just pull their results out of thin air. As always, points of comparison are how we make the most out of the results we get from commercial tests. What I notice with Living DNA is that they produce scattered results with fracturing percentages and incorrect regions for many people. Of course not everyone receives scattered results, a few Irish testers get fairly "clean" results.
    [My definition of Scattered here are the British regions with very small percentages - When someone gets East Anglia 2.6, Lincolnshire 2.1, South Central England 1.6 XYZ, 0.9 and so on.]
    But almost everyone seems to have at least one region they do not actually have any ancestry from. This is why Nqp's results are so interesting...
    [They were...
    Ireland - 85.1%
    Northwest Scotland - 8%
    Cumbria - 5.1%
    Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland - 1.8%]

    There are so few regions here, and it strikes me as very unusual for Living DNA to so narrowly define someone's ancestry with their results. The odds are that at least one of his assigned regions are incorrect based on comparison to the results of others, but that is more likely to be one of the smaller regions. As Jessie pointed out, look to Ancestry's genetic communities, first and foremost. I completely agree. But I also don't think one should disregard the results from this test entirely either, considering it's so narrowly defined. It is consistent with the pattern of having more native Irish ancestry than his family history states, or, more of his ancestry from Scotland comes from a region which is more similar to the Irish than to the lowland Scottish, Argyll comes to mind as a region that fits this genetic description and also had some historical migration to Ulster.

    Another refresher on the context of this discussion:
    No one is saying or has said that he does not have any Scottish ancestry. What his results indicate is that his Irish ancestry is much higher than his known ancestry indicates, but some of us are very quick to forget all contextual basis. At the least, Nqp did point out that Jonathan McGuiness received a nearly identical Ancestry estimate to him (Though I have not checked this and am taking Nqp's word for it) and Jonathan's background is 50% native Irish 50% Ulster Scot.
    Last edited by sktibo; 11-15-2019 at 05:15 PM.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  17. #30
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    I'm willing to bet that a significant portion of what could be deemed "Scottish" is being lumped in with his Irish result at AncestryDNA. While it's possible to actually find minute differences between these populations for a consumer DNA testing company it'd be like splitting hairs.

    Matches to real people are much more telling of your ancestry, in regards to whether they follow your known paper trail or not.
    Last edited by spruithean; 11-15-2019 at 06:07 PM.

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