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Thread: Guanches compared to modern Berbers— how different?

  1. #1
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    Guanches compared to modern Berbers— how different?

    Do modern Berbers differ from Guanche samples in terms of SSA and SW Asian?

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  3. #2
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    Using G25 proxies, Guanches appear closest to North-Moroccans compared to all modern North-West Africans:



    In terms of SSA, aboriginal Guanches appear more or less the same to modern N-Moroccans, the only difference is the latter's slightly higher Dinka (Ancestral-East African) affinities.
    Ancestral residue perhaps from the neolithic sub-pluvial (green-sahara period) which would of course be less distant to modern NW-Africans.


    Here's the same run with other Berbers/North-West Africans:

     


    Their SW-Asian affinities appear more complex when additional Levant proxies are used:

     


    Source samples used (w/ all levants):

     
    KEN_LSA,-0.522448,0.044683,-0.010936,0.006137,0.004308,-0.006414,0.085309,-0.06692,0.076287,-0.06925,-0.011367,0.010491,-0.033003,0.000138,0.00855,-0.014983,0.021383,0.038513,-0.002137,-0.005253,-0.007612,-0.002968,0.002342,0.004699,-0.000718
    ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
    CHN_Tianyuan,-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
    Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0. 1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32E-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
    Anatolia_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
    Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.0812696,0.1468454,-0.0613196,-0.0979336,-0.0105248,-0.0389334,-0.0047942,-0.0065998,0.0114534,0.0101686,0.0104904,-0.0097712,0.0215854,0.005505,-0.0075734,0.0065234,-0.0001562,-0.0011906,0.0015086,0.004252,0.0042674,0.007543,-0.0012572,0.0015906,-0.0005028
    Levant_ISR_C,0.0886623,0.1666536,-0.046763,-0.135219,0.0157761,-0.0622661,-0.0120351,-0.0113436,0.0529071,0.0342603,0.0145636,-0.0154914,0.0330965,0.0045705,-0.0154936,0.0029309,-0.0032528,0.0040806,0.0034931,0.0089778,0.0023839, 0.0086492,-0.0027244,-0.0019723,-0.0039579
    Levant_ISR_MLBA,0.080814,0.149283,-0.046009,-0.103683,-0.012618,-0.036256,-0.00564,-0.008769,0.00859,0.014579,0.01088,-0.007044,0.01665,0.004542,-0.012215,0.012198,0.002477,0.008742,0.006285,0.013 506,0.015348,0.013973,-0.013557,-0.001205,-0.004431
    Levant_JOR_EBA,0.0758823,0.147929,-0.0599623,-0.11402,-0.0056417,-0.0476903,-0.0108887,-0.013307,0.0336783,0.0075323,0.0157517,-0.0196823,0.041526,-0.0008717,-0.0031217,0.0228937,0.0018253,0.0010137,-0.0030583,0.0170917,0.0050743,0.011706,-0.0038617,0.0042577,-0.0071053
    Levant_LBN_MA_Euro,0.1248263,0.1391273,0.0551857,0 .0273473,0.0379557,0.0087387,-0.0031333,0.006461,0.0126123,0.012453,-0.0053587,0.010191,-0.0110503,-0.011239,0.0116267,-0.0011493,-0.002955,0.0013513,0.0011733,0.0042103,0.0083187,0 .005523,-0.000616,-0.0008837,0.0018763
    Levant_LBN_MA_Mixed,0.093904,0.148775,0.0052795,-0.027455,0.0238505,-0.0124105,-0.0030555,0.002769,0.008283,0.0190435,0.002923,0.0 062195,-0.0080275,-0.010666,-0.0010855,-0.0026515,0.002673,-0.0018365,-0.0022625,6.25e-05,0.0009355,-0.002102,0.005238,0.005362,0.003353
    Levant_LBN_MA_NE,0.085652,0.150552,-0.0499688,-0.0856758,-0.0080785,-0.0284468,-0.0062278,-0.0122302,0.0030168,0.0139868,0.0088098,-0.0060698,0.009923,6.88e-05,-0.0090595,0.0023203,-0.0001955,-0.001869,0.004431,-0.0074722,-0.0028075,0.0007108,-0.0050838,0.0027112,0.0041315
    Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0873592,0.1459822,-0.057605,-0.0873715,-0.0110788,-0.0278195,-0.007814,-0.0074422,0.0077718,0.0132578,0.0027202,-0.009704,0.012859,-0.0026492,-0.0096022,0.0102428,0.001695,-0.001172,0.0026085,0.0033142,-0.0002497,0.0044825,-0.003574,-0.0008438,-0.00479
    Levant_PPNB,0.072847,0.1639064,-0.0316026,-0.1361132,0.0332986,-0.0645352,-0.0134426,-0.0147684,0.0741604,0.03601,0.0188046,-0.0150764,0.035738,0.0025596,-0.0217696,0.006099,0.0098048,-0.0013176,-0.0047264,0.0188088,-0.001797,0.0071472,0.0008872,-0.0056874,-0.0037602
    Levant_PPNC,0.067156,0.168578,-0.023004,-0.150842,0.028621,-0.071954,-0.013866,-0.017999,0.077719,0.037905,0.006496,-0.013188,0.032705,-0.000275,-0.014929,0.008486,-0.000913,-0.007728,-0.013575,0.012381,-0.009982,0.01014,0.002958,0.003012,-0.001916
    Levant_Natufian,0.020488,0.1431895,-0.0377125,-0.1387295,0.030775,-0.079484,-0.025616,-0.0175375,0.114329,0.002005,0.0332085,-0.0222555,0.076486,0.002133,0.0153365,0.009016,-0.0154505,-0.001014,-0.02206,0.040832,0.001497,0.0001235,-0.003636,-0.0044585,0.006287
    Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
    Gambian,-0.6064875,0.0671942,0.0197362,0.0114665,0.0021028, 0.0055777,-0.0358392,0.0387677,-0.0317353,0.0241463,0.0054132,-0.0036467,0.0162287,-0.0009865,0.011016,-0.0153362,0.009692,-0.0011823,-0.002116,-0.0032307,-0.001643,-0.0018137,0.0043958,-0.0001005,0.001377
    Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
    Ju_hoan_North,-0.616466,0.0601194,0.0211942,0.028424,0.0025852,-0.0038486,0.2541404,-0.199192,0.0240112,0.007909,0.0032478,-0.0723558,-0.0255104,0.00867,0.0283928,-0.0321662,0.0461558,0.4102178,-0.1364076,0.003877,-0.0556018,-0.0051686,0.0126206,-0.0044826,0.0028978
    Mbuti,-0.6493608,0.0578852,0.0250785,0.038437,-0.001077,0.0054385,0.3631505,-0.291911,0.0193278,0.0323013,-0.0090938,0.2169692,0.1242805,3.45E-05,0.0080072,0.0017568,0.000717,-0.049567,0.015901,0.004471,0.0049288,-0.0020402,-0.002465,0.0057838,0.000389
    IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0455292,0.0660095,-0.1518855,0.0026648,-0.1250232,0.0204982,0.0170972,-0.0017305,-0.0814005,-0.0579968,0.0004465,-0.001611,0.0072845,-0.0087735,0.0294512,0.0567152,-0.005248,0.0084882,0.007259,-0.037018,0.0075492,-0.0286258,-0.010322,-0.0404578,0.0265842
    ITA_Villabruna,0.121791,0.114755,0.18592,0.184111, 0.156337,0.060798,0.020211,0.035998,0.092445,0.018 041,-0.016239,-0.016186,0.016947,-0.010046,0.054017,0.067356,0.000782,0.005448,-0.008422,0.053526,0.100073,0.010758,-0.048313,-0.163517,0.01928
    Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0551727,0.01282 31,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18E-05
    GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
    MAR_Iberomaurusian,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534

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  5. #3
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    Berbers are highly varied. Guanches I think fall on the low end of the Berber range in both Sub-Saharan and Levantine ancestry, and on the higher end in European-related ancestry.

    Scaled 25 models (poulation averages):
    Ancient Guanches - 33% Taforalt, 23% Iberia SW EN, 23% Sidon BA, 13% Ardea IA, 7% Pemba 600BP - 1.4584%
    Chenini Berbers - 33% Taforalt, 23% Iberia SW EN, 29% Sidon BA, 10% Ardea IA, 5% Pemba 600BP - 2.1080%
    Sened Berbers - 24% Taforalt, 17% Iberia SW EN, 46% Sidon BA, 3% Ardea IA, 9% Pemba 600BP - 1.7605%
    Tiznit Berbers - 40% Taforalt, 28% Iberia SW EN, 20% Sidon BA, 0% Ardea IA, 12% Pemba 600BP - 2.2658%
    Errachidia Berbers - 34% Taforalt, 24% Iberia SW EN, 24% Sidon BA, 4% Ardea IA, 13% Pemba 600BP - 1.9195%
    Mozabite Berbers - 32% Taforalt, 21% Iberia SW EN, 27% Sidon BA, 10% Ardea IA, 11% Pemba 600BP - 1.9770%
    Timimoun Berbers - 20% Taforalt, 13% Iberia SW EN, 20% Sidon BA, 1% Ardea IA, 47% Pemba 600BP - 3.0953%

    PS Totally ninjaed

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angoliga View Post
    Using G25 proxies, Guanches appear closest to North-Moroccans compared to all modern North-West Africans:



    In terms of SSA, aboriginal Guanches appear more or less the same to modern N-Moroccans, the only difference is the latter's slightly higher Dinka (Ancestral-East African) affinities.
    Ancestral residue perhaps from the neolithic sub-pluvial (green-sahara period) which would of course be less distant to modern NW-Africans.


    Here's the same run with other Berbers/North-West Africans:

     


    Their SW-Asian affinities appear more complex when additional Levant proxies are used:

     


    Source samples used (w/ all levants):

     
    KEN_LSA,-0.522448,0.044683,-0.010936,0.006137,0.004308,-0.006414,0.085309,-0.06692,0.076287,-0.06925,-0.011367,0.010491,-0.033003,0.000138,0.00855,-0.014983,0.021383,0.038513,-0.002137,-0.005253,-0.007612,-0.002968,0.002342,0.004699,-0.000718
    ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
    CHN_Tianyuan,-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
    Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0. 1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32E-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
    Anatolia_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
    Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.0812696,0.1468454,-0.0613196,-0.0979336,-0.0105248,-0.0389334,-0.0047942,-0.0065998,0.0114534,0.0101686,0.0104904,-0.0097712,0.0215854,0.005505,-0.0075734,0.0065234,-0.0001562,-0.0011906,0.0015086,0.004252,0.0042674,0.007543,-0.0012572,0.0015906,-0.0005028
    Levant_ISR_C,0.0886623,0.1666536,-0.046763,-0.135219,0.0157761,-0.0622661,-0.0120351,-0.0113436,0.0529071,0.0342603,0.0145636,-0.0154914,0.0330965,0.0045705,-0.0154936,0.0029309,-0.0032528,0.0040806,0.0034931,0.0089778,0.0023839, 0.0086492,-0.0027244,-0.0019723,-0.0039579
    Levant_ISR_MLBA,0.080814,0.149283,-0.046009,-0.103683,-0.012618,-0.036256,-0.00564,-0.008769,0.00859,0.014579,0.01088,-0.007044,0.01665,0.004542,-0.012215,0.012198,0.002477,0.008742,0.006285,0.013 506,0.015348,0.013973,-0.013557,-0.001205,-0.004431
    Levant_JOR_EBA,0.0758823,0.147929,-0.0599623,-0.11402,-0.0056417,-0.0476903,-0.0108887,-0.013307,0.0336783,0.0075323,0.0157517,-0.0196823,0.041526,-0.0008717,-0.0031217,0.0228937,0.0018253,0.0010137,-0.0030583,0.0170917,0.0050743,0.011706,-0.0038617,0.0042577,-0.0071053
    Levant_LBN_MA_Euro,0.1248263,0.1391273,0.0551857,0 .0273473,0.0379557,0.0087387,-0.0031333,0.006461,0.0126123,0.012453,-0.0053587,0.010191,-0.0110503,-0.011239,0.0116267,-0.0011493,-0.002955,0.0013513,0.0011733,0.0042103,0.0083187,0 .005523,-0.000616,-0.0008837,0.0018763
    Levant_LBN_MA_Mixed,0.093904,0.148775,0.0052795,-0.027455,0.0238505,-0.0124105,-0.0030555,0.002769,0.008283,0.0190435,0.002923,0.0 062195,-0.0080275,-0.010666,-0.0010855,-0.0026515,0.002673,-0.0018365,-0.0022625,6.25e-05,0.0009355,-0.002102,0.005238,0.005362,0.003353
    Levant_LBN_MA_NE,0.085652,0.150552,-0.0499688,-0.0856758,-0.0080785,-0.0284468,-0.0062278,-0.0122302,0.0030168,0.0139868,0.0088098,-0.0060698,0.009923,6.88e-05,-0.0090595,0.0023203,-0.0001955,-0.001869,0.004431,-0.0074722,-0.0028075,0.0007108,-0.0050838,0.0027112,0.0041315
    Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0873592,0.1459822,-0.057605,-0.0873715,-0.0110788,-0.0278195,-0.007814,-0.0074422,0.0077718,0.0132578,0.0027202,-0.009704,0.012859,-0.0026492,-0.0096022,0.0102428,0.001695,-0.001172,0.0026085,0.0033142,-0.0002497,0.0044825,-0.003574,-0.0008438,-0.00479
    Levant_PPNB,0.072847,0.1639064,-0.0316026,-0.1361132,0.0332986,-0.0645352,-0.0134426,-0.0147684,0.0741604,0.03601,0.0188046,-0.0150764,0.035738,0.0025596,-0.0217696,0.006099,0.0098048,-0.0013176,-0.0047264,0.0188088,-0.001797,0.0071472,0.0008872,-0.0056874,-0.0037602
    Levant_PPNC,0.067156,0.168578,-0.023004,-0.150842,0.028621,-0.071954,-0.013866,-0.017999,0.077719,0.037905,0.006496,-0.013188,0.032705,-0.000275,-0.014929,0.008486,-0.000913,-0.007728,-0.013575,0.012381,-0.009982,0.01014,0.002958,0.003012,-0.001916
    Levant_Natufian,0.020488,0.1431895,-0.0377125,-0.1387295,0.030775,-0.079484,-0.025616,-0.0175375,0.114329,0.002005,0.0332085,-0.0222555,0.076486,0.002133,0.0153365,0.009016,-0.0154505,-0.001014,-0.02206,0.040832,0.001497,0.0001235,-0.003636,-0.0044585,0.006287
    Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
    Gambian,-0.6064875,0.0671942,0.0197362,0.0114665,0.0021028, 0.0055777,-0.0358392,0.0387677,-0.0317353,0.0241463,0.0054132,-0.0036467,0.0162287,-0.0009865,0.011016,-0.0153362,0.009692,-0.0011823,-0.002116,-0.0032307,-0.001643,-0.0018137,0.0043958,-0.0001005,0.001377
    Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
    Ju_hoan_North,-0.616466,0.0601194,0.0211942,0.028424,0.0025852,-0.0038486,0.2541404,-0.199192,0.0240112,0.007909,0.0032478,-0.0723558,-0.0255104,0.00867,0.0283928,-0.0321662,0.0461558,0.4102178,-0.1364076,0.003877,-0.0556018,-0.0051686,0.0126206,-0.0044826,0.0028978
    Mbuti,-0.6493608,0.0578852,0.0250785,0.038437,-0.001077,0.0054385,0.3631505,-0.291911,0.0193278,0.0323013,-0.0090938,0.2169692,0.1242805,3.45E-05,0.0080072,0.0017568,0.000717,-0.049567,0.015901,0.004471,0.0049288,-0.0020402,-0.002465,0.0057838,0.000389
    IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0455292,0.0660095,-0.1518855,0.0026648,-0.1250232,0.0204982,0.0170972,-0.0017305,-0.0814005,-0.0579968,0.0004465,-0.001611,0.0072845,-0.0087735,0.0294512,0.0567152,-0.005248,0.0084882,0.007259,-0.037018,0.0075492,-0.0286258,-0.010322,-0.0404578,0.0265842
    ITA_Villabruna,0.121791,0.114755,0.18592,0.184111, 0.156337,0.060798,0.020211,0.035998,0.092445,0.018 041,-0.016239,-0.016186,0.016947,-0.010046,0.054017,0.067356,0.000782,0.005448,-0.008422,0.053526,0.100073,0.010758,-0.048313,-0.163517,0.01928
    Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0551727,0.01282 31,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18E-05
    GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
    MAR_Iberomaurusian,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
    Actually when you use individual results instead of averages, Guanches look pretty much normal for Central and Northern Moroccans, they fall inside the Moroccan cluster.

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    Yes , modern north africans have actual sub-saharan admixture , while guanches had ancestry that came from Iberomaurusians.(which isn't actual sub-saharan admixture) you can search about
    that in the Taforalt affinity there's several posts about it.
    in Algerians for example there's a decrease on the native north african ancestry but increase in sub-saharan admixture.(so this increase is real admixture and different from the admixture observed in guanches)
    while isolated Berbers like Mozabite, show the closest relation still they all have been influenced by the slave trade..and the admixture is also partially un-related to guanches but represent actual admixture events dated to the arab slave trade.
    the closest to guanches , are mozabite and northern moroccans , even so Guanches were from southern Morocco originally.

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    Guanches come up with minor Sub-Saharan ancestry on top of Taforalt in the models posted above. They also have a good deal of mt hg L3b1a, which is probably West African. So I'd be surprised if they don't have actual Sub-Saharan ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Guanches come up with minor Sub-Saharan ancestry on top of Taforalt in the models posted above. They also have a good deal of mt hg L3b1a, which is probably West African. So I'd be surprised if they don't have actual Sub-Saharan ancestry.
    Indeed.

    Fun fact: L2e is detected among Guanches from La Palma (Fregel, 2009); same mt hg as my paternal grandmother (old lady in my avatar)

    It's also detected in mainland Morocco, with a higher concentration in and around the Lake Chad basin.

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    Is anyone else getting Yamnaya ancestry when they test the Guanche for basic components?

    I tried testing more proximate components, and they prefer Beaker_Iberia over Yamnaya. That would seem to be the most plausible source of steppe ancestry, but I should also concede they prefer the Szolad Lombard (Northern profile only) and Visigoth Iberia averages over Beaker_Iberia when I test them all together. Still, I find it very hard to believe the Germanics ever reached the Canary Isles. If the steppe ancestry is real, I think Beaker is the only reasonable choice.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Is anyone else getting Yamnaya ancestry when they test the Guanche for basic components?

    I tried testing more proximate components, and they prefer Beaker_Iberia over Yamnaya. That would seem to be the most plausible source of steppe ancestry, but I should also concede they prefer the Szolad Lombard (Northern profile only) and Visigoth Iberia averages over Beaker_Iberia when I test them all together. Still, I find it very hard to believe the Germanics ever reached the Canary Isles. If the steppe ancestry is real, I think Beaker is the only reasonable choice.
    I'm seeing a sizable affinity but it's on a *very rudimentary run:

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebro View Post
    Yes , modern north africans have actual sub-saharan admixture , while guanches had ancestry that came from Iberomaurusians.(which isn't actual sub-saharan admixture) you can search about
    that in the Taforalt affinity there's several posts about it.
    in Algerians for example there's a decrease on the native north african ancestry but increase in sub-saharan admixture.(so this increase is real admixture and different from the admixture observed in guanches)
    while isolated Berbers like Mozabite, show the closest relation still they all have been influenced by the slave trade..and the admixture is also partially un-related to guanches but represent actual admixture events dated to the arab slave trade.
    the closest to guanches , are mozabite and northern moroccans , even so Guanches were from southern Morocco originally.
    Lol, how do you know that?

    A likely scenario for Canaries is that they were discovered by Carthaginian expeditions into Africa. They even reached Guinea.

    Once discovered people naturally came to settle coming via Phoenician harbors such as Tangiers, Sale and Azilah which lie in the Nothern Morocco. The most southern Carthaginian harbor of Morocco is Mazagan (nearby Casablanca).

    It would kinda match the profile of Guanches ranging from very Riffian-like to something abit noticeably southern and higher in Iberomaurusian ancestry.

    Carthage's destruction would have put the islands into isolation and without Carthaginians and Numidians coming back and forth regularly people became isolated.
    Last edited by Bealfire; 12-10-2019 at 11:51 PM.

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