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Thread: Z18021

  1. #1
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    Cool Z18021

    Z18021 is what Family Tree DNA calls BY166. It is an R1b-L51 haplogroup like so (from memory):

    M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310> L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41>FGC5572>BY168>Z18021 (BY166)

    (I did check myself after typing that from memory, and I got it right. You'll have to take my word for it.)

    Z18021 is downstream from the major SNP R1b-L21, which has the modern European distribution basically like so:

    R1b-L21 map.png

    Thus far, Z18021 itself appears to be a clade from the Welsh Marches:

    Welsh Marches.png

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  3. #2
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    Z18021 is also under DF41, the SNP characterizing the major clade of both the Royal Stewarts and the Guinness brewing family (the latter much more important than the former for most of us, even though I consider myself a Jacobite).

    DF41 is downstream of Z39589, which splits DF13 as follows (ignore my personal family stuff):

    R1b-Z39589 Tree to FGC36974 Stephens under DF41_with Z18021 for BY166.jpg
    Last edited by rms2; 11-24-2019 at 01:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Z18021 is also under DF41, the SNP characterizing the major clade of both the Royal Stewarts and the Guinness brewing family (the latter much more important than the former for most of us, even though I consider myself a Jacobite).

    DF41 is downstream of Z39589, which splits DF13 as follows (ignore my personal family stuff):

    R1b-Z39589 Tree to FGC36974 Stephens under DF41_with Z18021 for BY166.jpg
    Rich,

    Do you have a pretty good idea where the Stephens originated? Wales or close to it?
    yDNA: R1b-BY17850 (England?)
    Maternal grandfather (MDKA: Johannes Nicholas Schaefer, Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) - yDNA: R1b-U106, mtDNA: T2b
    Maternal grandmother (MDKA: Angelina Centrella, Avellino, Campania, Italia) - mtDNA: HV4a1


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopfjäger View Post
    Rich,

    Do you have a pretty good idea where the Stephens originated? Wales or close to it?
    Based on close matches who can trace their ancestry across the Pond, it has to be Wales or the West Midlands right along the Welsh border. Plus if you look at the surnames in our cluster, most of them are unmistakably Welsh (Jones, Lloyd, Price, Samuel, Phillips, Beddoes, etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Based on close matches who can trace their ancestry across the Pond, it has to be Wales or the West Midlands right along the Welsh border. Plus if you look at the surnames in our cluster, most of them are unmistakably Welsh (Jones, Lloyd, Price, Samuel, Phillips, Beddoes, etc.).
    We're pretty obviously Britons rather than Anglo-Saxons.

    celtic chariot.jpg

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    The Beddoes matches I have (65/67) are actually from Britain, from Cardeston, Shropshire, right on the Welsh border, and Beddoes is a Welsh surname.

    Cardeston

    The Welsh Marches were all part of the old Welsh kingdom of Powys, and before that the area where most of my matches come from belonged to the Celtic tribe the Cornovii. I'm not going psycho (yet) and claiming the Cornovii as ancestors; maybe we were Ordovices. Someday perhaps they'll get ancient y-dna from the Cornovii, and we'll find out.

    It would be cool to find BY168 or at least FGC5572 among the Cornovii. They were one of the few (if any other) tribes allowed by the Romans to serve in the Roman army as foederati or auxilia in their own home territory. Most barbarians in the service of Rome weren't trusted enough to serve in their own tribal lands but had to be shipped out elsewhere.
    Last edited by rms2; 11-24-2019 at 02:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    The Beddoes matches I have (65/67) are actually from Britain, from Cardeston, Shropshire, right on the Welsh border, and Beddoes is a Welsh surname.

    Cardeston

    The Welsh Marches were all part of the old Welsh kingdom of Powys, and before that the area where most of my matches come from belonged to the Celtic tribe the Cornovii. I'm not going psycho (yet) and claiming the Cornovii as ancestors; maybe we were Ordovices. Someday perhaps they'll get ancient y-dna from the Cornovii, and we'll find out.

    It would be cool to find BY168 or at least FGC5572 among the Cornovii. They were one of the few (if any other) tribes allowed by the Romans to serve in the Roman army as foederati or auxilia in their own home territory. Most barbarians in the service of Rome weren't trusted enough to serve in their own tribal lands but had to be shipped out elsewhere.
    That's interesting. I can see from the map that it's just about in Wales where your matches are from. I'm jealous you've been able to narrow it down that well - I just ordered Big Y so hopefully I can catch up at some point lol.

    BTW, was in London for a day earlier this month and had some good cider, although West Country cider is probably better.
    yDNA: R1b-BY17850 (England?)
    Maternal grandfather (MDKA: Johannes Nicholas Schaefer, Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) - yDNA: R1b-U106, mtDNA: T2b
    Maternal grandmother (MDKA: Angelina Centrella, Avellino, Campania, Italia) - mtDNA: HV4a1


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    Here is the entry for Z18021 at Genetic Homeland, and here is the entry for its daddy, BY168 (aka Z18023).

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    Evidently Z18021 is also the model number of a type of cog wheel, which inspired me.

    cog wheel model Z18021.jpg Z18021 in cog wheels.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Evidently Z18021 is also the model number of a type of cog wheel, which inspired me.

    cog wheel model Z18021.jpg Z18021 in cog wheels.jpg
    You should trademark your cog wheel chart system immediately. They'll be everywhere before you know it.
    Recent tree: mainly West Country England and Southeast Wales, plus several neighbouring regions and countries before 1900
    Y line: Peak District, England. Closest matches: Sweden; TMRCA 1,300 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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