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Thread: Moroccan (muslim & jewish) results (ftdna)

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  1. #1
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    Moroccan (muslim & jewish) results (ftdna)

    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to share with you few Moroccan results from ftdna, just to give you an idea about regional differences.

    Northern Moroccans (Djebala Arabophones + Riffians) usually score elevated NA + Euro, and almost no middle eastern or subsaharan.

    Arabophone from NW Morocco:
     




    Berber from Rif:
     




    The region of Fès has basically 3 groups, the Berber (mainly Middle Atlassians), the Arabophones (mainly Berbers with minor arabic influence) and the urban native of Fès (Fassi), this city was the largest Moroccan/ Maghrebi city until it was surpassed by Casablanca in the 20th century, Fès was originally populated by Andalusians from Sevilla, and due to its history it received continuous flows from Iberia, also this city had a large jewish population, the biggest "mellah" (jewish neighborhood) in the Arab world was in Fès.
    Out of the 3 groups, the urban Fassis are the most atypical for Morocco:


    Arabophones from the region north of Fès :
     







    Middle Atlassians from the region south of Fès:
     








    Urban Fassis :
     











    Moriscos:
    These originally spread all over the country especially the north, but the latest moriscos (post 1600), migrated mainly to Fès, Rabat, Tetouan and Chefchaouen, the first was a big city and they didn't had a strong impact in its demographics, the case of Rabat are different, Rabat was basically a large fort, near the city of Salé, who was inhabited by urban Moroccans, and once arrived to Morocco some Moriscos asked to settle in Rabat, where they mixed with people from Salé, but they kept a clear "Morisco" identity, Spanish was spoken as first language until the 19 century.
    Tetouan is kinda similar, the only difference is that Tetuan don't have a large city, and therefore the Moroccan indigenous part of Tetouani people comes from the countryside (similar to Arabophone from NW Morocco).

    Here 2 Tetouanis with Morisco heritage :
     






    Rbati with Morisco heritage:
     




    People here are mainly Berber with some Arab ancestry (usually less than 5% but can reach 13% in some rare cases).

    Arabophone from Western Morocco:
     




    Last edited by Amhas; 11-24-2019 at 01:54 AM.

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    Moroccan Jews:

    Like the Moriscos and Fassi, they are clearly outlier, these are mainly of Sephardi heritage:
     













    Southwestern Berbers:
    These score the highest % of North African in Ftdna, I post once, since a dozen have 100% NA, some Sahrawis can reach 100% NA in FTDNA, and some Mauritanian beidhane too.

     




    ( NB: all of them gave the autorisation to publish their results.)

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amhas View Post
    Moroccan Jews:

    Like the Moriscos and Fassi, they are clearly outlier, these are mainly of Sephardi heritage:
     













    Southwestern Berbers:
    These score the highest % of North African in Ftdna, I post once, since a dozen have 100% NA, some Sahrawis can reach 100% NA in FTDNA, and some Mauritanian beidhane too.

     




    ( NB: all of them gave the autorisation to publish their results.)
    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

    I haven't seen a whole lot of FTDNA results for Sephardic Jews, or North Africans in general, for that matter. I'm wondering how representative these results are for Moroccan Jews. The Sephardic percentages seem low in comparison to MyHeritage, but that could easily be because the MH reference populations are specifically North African, whereas FTDNA seemingly uses Eastern Sephardim.

    It's particularly interesting that the Urban Fassis seem to have such mixed backgrounds in comparison with others from the same region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

    I haven't seen a whole lot of FTDNA results for Sephardic Jews, or North Africans in general, for that matter. I'm wondering how representative these results are for Moroccan Jews. The Sephardic percentages seem low in comparison to MyHeritage, but that could easily be because the MH reference populations are specifically North African, whereas FTDNA seemingly uses Eastern Sephardim.

    It's particularly interesting that the Urban Fassis seem to have such mixed backgrounds in comparison with others from the same region.

    I would say that they are quite representative, these people have 4 Moroccan born g-parents, I saw one with up to 20% North African but I can't post it.

    Myheritage doesn't look very accurate for North Africans, almost everyone scores +15% Iberian, and their jewish database is very large, and that make every non jewish score some kind of jewish.

    I was very surprised by Urban Fassis too, I knew that according to historical events they have recent Iberian and jewish ancestry (middle ages) but I was thinking that it was exaggerated by authors and yet their results confirm this, there are even some fassi families named Cohen lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amhas View Post
    I would say that they are quite representative, these people have 4 Moroccan born g-parents, I saw one with up to 20% North African but I can't post it.

    Myheritage doesn't look very accurate for North Africans, almost everyone scores +15% Iberian, and their jewish database is very large, and that make every non jewish score some kind of jewish.

    I was very surprised by Urban Fassis too, I knew that according to historical events they have recent Iberian and jewish ancestry (middle ages) but I was thinking that it was exaggerated by authors and yet their results confirm this, there are even some fassi families named Cohen lol.
    Are these all examples from your DNA matches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Are these all examples from your DNA matches?
    Some are my matches, and some are my friends matches.

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    Unpublished groups:

    Eastern Moroccans:

    Arabophones score a slightly higher Arabian influence than the other groups.

    Berbers score similar to Middle Atlas Berbers and the Beni Snous Berbers from Algeria.


    Southern eastern Morocco:

    Berberophones:

    2 groups speak Berber, one is pred. Berber and score high North African, similar to Southwestern Berbers.
    and the second is SSA shifted, overall this group shows SSA varying from 30% to 60%, with some rare cases reaching 70%.

    Arabophones:

    Basically the same as Berberophones, one group is SSA shifted, and the second is Berber with an arabian influence, this varies from a group to another, some groups can score high High north african, and some tribes can reach up to 30% Arabian and are outlier to Morocco, and usually look shifted towards the algero-tunisian-libyan arabs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amhas View Post
    Unpublished groups:

    Eastern Moroccans:

    Arabophones score a slightly higher Arabian influence than the other groups.

    Berbers score similar to Middle Atlas Berbers and the Beni Snous Berbers from Algeria.

    I am from east Morocco, I am very interested if you can publish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itrane2000 View Post
    I am from east Morocco, I am very interested if you can publish.
    I’ll post two Berbers from east Morocco who are high Levantine
    66EB7A97-2773-4BE5-A720-2F74E4349413.jpeg

    Here is some with little to no Levantine input, shocking diverse results in Morocco no way
    Attachment 39882
    Last edited by maroco; 09-27-2020 at 08:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maroco View Post
    I’ll post two Berbers from east Morocco who are high Levantine
    66EB7A97-2773-4BE5-A720-2F74E4349413.jpeg

    Here is some with little to no Levantine input, shocking diverse results in Morocco no way
    Attachment 39882
    You are using G25, while the results i posted are from FTDNA, how do you expect them to be identical?
    Second thing is the proxies you are using for your G25, with good proxies, Moroccans usually score few or any levantine, while some score some arabian.

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