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Thread: Blame it on the Rain: Paleohydrologic considerations for Shaping African Substructure

  1. #21
    The Ancient east africans descend from the North african Capasian Pastoralists ..ancestry associated with Pastoralism and neolithic Levantinese domesticates.

    Proto-Nilotes were probably those sudanese Mesolithic hunter-gatherer-fishers ..who carried A1b/L lineages.
    when the Pastoralists migrated from Northern africa they were already 100% Levantinese....they mixed with the fishers and probably became 70% Natufian Levantinese / 30% Dinka-like..
    btw its (not Taforalt maghreb)
    its not Taforalt who brought the levantinese domesticates..taforalt represent earlier back-migration specific to the Maghreb.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    It's Very likely that ANA Originated somewhere in Northeast Africa too around (~30K ybp) or maybe quite more recent or Early .
    However it would have had been already heavily diluted among These Lower Nile Valley inhabitants That were felt in times of Jebel Sahaba , Since Current Egyptians and East Africans lacks anything Taforalt_Like ; But Rather Rich in Natufian_Like .
    Looking at a map of the geographic distance between NE and NW Africa exposes another flawed assumption, I think. Consider the approximate geographical distance between WHG/Villabruna and EHG/Samara is roughly 1000 km smaller than the distance between a place like Luxor and the Taforalt cave. Knowing the relevant populations were foragers & hunter-gatherers combined with this fact sets huge limitations on our ability to extrapolate the situation in Egypt/Sudan from remains in Morocco.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar II View Post
    Looking at a map of the geographic distance between NE and NW Africa exposes another flawed assumption, I think. Consider the approximate geographical distance between WHG/Villabruna and EHG/Samara is roughly 1000 km smaller than the distance between a place like Luxor and the Taforalt cave. Knowing the relevant populations were foragers & hunter-gatherers combined with this fact sets huge limitations on our ability to extrapolate the situation in Egypt/Sudan from remains in Morocco.
    Well , we already have Evidences of connections between West North Africa and the Levant despite the Distances you recorded.
    The fact that both Mesolithic sites consisted of ANA , BE and Villlabruna_Like with different Percentages , In addition of MT-DNA Studies Usually appointing U6 lineages as coming from a South_West Asian Source sometime between (30k ~ 25K) .
    Worth to note that Dzudzuana (26K ybp remains) itself is enjoying U6 , of Which existence is Further Strengthening an (East to West) possibility of diffusion between the area's populations.
    Last edited by The Saite; 04-06-2020 at 12:35 PM.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    Well , we already have Evidences of connection between West North Africa and the Levant despite the Distances you recorded.
    The fact that both Mesolithic sites consisted of ANA , BE and Villlabruna_Like with different Percentages , In addition of MT-DNA Studies Usually appointing U6 lineages as coming from a West_Asian Source sometime between (30k ~ 25K) .
    Dzudzuana (26K ybp remains) already carried U6 results , That is Further Strengthening an (East to West) possibility of diffusion .
    Sure, I don't think it's deniable that Eurasian ancestry in some form spread from East to West but we know little more about the source of this ancestry (Dzudzuana is used as a proxy in Lazaridis model but most likely not the actual source).

    The question is one of how well can we infer the genetic background of Paleolithic Northeast Africans from a relative in the Northwest corner given there is bound to be a degree of genetic structure that differentiates the two due to drift incurred via distance and societal structure (hunter-gatherers/foragers).

  6. #25
    Just to interject, but what actually is Basal Eurasian? Its a term thrown around a lot, even though I believe its actually hypothetical? In a reality where it exists, is Basal Eurasian related to Hadza/Chabu/Mota groups?

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar II View Post
    Sure, I don't think it's deniable that Eurasian ancestry in some form spread from East to West but we know little more about the source of this ancestry (Dzudzuana is used as a proxy in Lazaridis model but most likely not the actual source).

    The question is one of how well can we infer the genetic background of Paleolithic Northeast Africans from a relative in the Northwest corner given there is bound to be a degree of genetic structure that differentiates the two due to drift incurred via distance and societal structure (hunter-gatherers/foragers).

    Actually Mitochondrial lineages can give us some Hints regarding this , Since Apart from the shared M1 & U6 Cades . There are a great differentiation between NE and NW in other Eurasian MT-DNA branches . With a Potential Paleolithic entry too in NE Africa for most .
    (fadhloui-zed 2011)
    One can assume that the continuous diffusions of Eurasian ancestry in NE Africa have resulted a dilution of their ancestry , already Making them eventually a Natufian_like peoples in the paleolithic lower_valley area . Hence affected Egyptians and the Pastrolists later (with other ancestries involved)

    We are really in a need of NE African DNA so bad , Neolithic and onwords
    Last edited by The Saite; 04-05-2020 at 10:12 PM.

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Just to interject, but what actually is Basal Eurasian? Its a term thrown around a lot, even though I believe its actually hypothetical? In a reality where it exists, is Basal Eurasian related to Hadza/Chabu/Mota groups?
    Basal Eurasian , Is a hypothesized lineage of the migrated early Humans (out of Africa) frequent the most in those whom get kept isolated from admixing with Neanderthals .
    presumed to have existed and situationed as a group somewhere in South_West Asia , likely in this Area below according to (Yang 2018)



    Their ancestry is maximized among Neolithic and Pre-Neolithic Iranian samples (Hotu cave) , but still exists in CHG , Natufians , Dzudzuana , Anatolians and among others

    you can check Lazardis 2016 for more detailed better informative words
    Last edited by The Saite; 04-05-2020 at 10:45 PM.

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  11. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    Basal Eurasian , Is a hypothesized lineage of the migrated early Humans (out of Africa) frequent the most in those whom kept isolated from admixing with Neanderthals .
    presumed to have existed and situationed as a group somewhere in South_West Asia , likely in this Area below according to (Yang 2018)



    Their ancestry is maximized among Neolithic and Pre-Neolithic Iranian samples (Hotu cave) , but still exists in CHG , Natufians , Dzudzuana , Anatolians and among others

    you can check Lazardis 2016 for more detailed better informative words

    And these Basal Eurasians were descendants of a Hadza-like group?

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    And these Basal Eurasians were descendants of a Hadza-like group?

    Instead , It's a rather Matter of deep (As if it was separated) levels , when excluding Normal Eurasians.
    Basal Eurasians being the least deep of them , followed by ANA then afterwords comes the Hadza_like turn
    Last edited by The Saite; 04-05-2020 at 10:53 PM.

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  14. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    Instead , It's a rather Matter of deep (As if it was separated) levels , when excluding Normal Eurasians.
    Basal Eurasians being the least deep of them , followed by ANA then afterwords comes the Hadza_like turn
    Thanks, not fully following cuz Basal Eurasian has always confused me, but I don't wanna derail the thread.
    Last edited by ThaYamamoto; 04-06-2020 at 01:57 AM.

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