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Thread: Living DNA members update

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    Interesting about the Ireland results (and totally agree about the need for the cautious mode).

    They apparently still have not updated my old results -- which remain exactly the same -- since the addition of the Irish panel. As a result, I continue to get no Irish or Scottish results at all (but for a little Orkney), whereas both of my parents do (note: my parents are uploads from FTDNA, mine is an actual LDNA test).

    My dad gets:

    Ireland 5.6%
    North Wales 4.6%
    South Wales 1.6%

    This is interesting since I get more Welsh than him (as well as some Welsh borders), and my Welsh comes from him (and is actually seemingly accurate). Maybe this explains his Ireland result, as misidentified Welsh?

    My mom gets:

    Ireland 6.7%
    Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 6%
    South Wales 5.8%
    Northwest Scotland 2.5%

    She does have Irish (Northern) ancestry on paper, so this makes sense. I don't know of any Welsh ancestry but it's possible.

    It continues to miss German, though, as my mother is likely about 50% German and Swedish (she has a grandmother who was Swedish, plus German and Swiss dating from American colonial era), and gets only 15% Swedish, no German.

    So long as they are counting German as English, I suspect it's distorting all of their regional results.
    They don't seem to be counting German as English for me, but partly as French. I still get 26.3% "Germanic", which is about 10% less than my paper trail shows. I actually get no English at LivingDNA, but instead I have 12.6% "Ireland" and 7.7% "Northwest Scotland".

    This is a huge contrast from Ancestry, which gives me 73% "England, Wales and Northwestern Europe", and only 10% "Germanic Europe". On the other hand, Ancestry is now reporting 14% "Ireland and Scotland", which is obviously less than LivingDNA's total for these two together -- 20.3%.

    LivingDNA gives me an ancestry that AncestryDNA doesn't "see" at all: 45.5% "France". I actually do have some French ancestry, but only about 3.1% on paper. However, I have an additional 6.25% Alsatian from my maternal grandmother's paternal grandmother, which certainly might be identified as part of this region (and my 2nd great grandmother's birthplace is, after all, in France). There's also 1.2% Swiss that could test as "France", although it's from a German-speaking region. Together this still only accounts for a bit more than 10%, so obviously some other ancestries are being identified as part of "France" here. As I said, some of my German and even more of my British. (Technically, I don't know whether I have any English; my known "British" ancestry is all Scottish and Scots-Irish.)

    LivingDNA also still "sees" at least some of my Menorcan Spanish ancestry, since they report 7.9% "Iberian Peninsula". My actual total for this ancestry, on paper, is 12.5%. However, on LivingDNA's region map the island of Menorca is shown as part of the "France" region, as is the island of Mallorca. So it's possible that my Menorcan ancestry is actually being split between "Iberian Peninsula" and "France". At least I'm not getting Ancestry's 0% for this ancestry (2018 update), or 1% (2019 update).

    The only ancestry that LivingDNA completely misses is Native American. This is in my tree at about 2% (more precisely, 1.95%), and appears as 2.1% at 23andMe, as "less than" 2% at FTDNA, and 1% at Ancestry in the 2019 update. In the 2018 update at Ancestry, it was 2%, so perhaps 1% had to vanish to make any room at all for the "Spanish". At least that makes it possible for me to see when one of my matches also has any Spanish, even if they've selected "Your DNA matches can only see the portion of your ethnic regions and Genetic Communities™ they have in common with you".

    Interestingly, the range never changed at all: it's still shown as 0-3%. What changed is how Ancestry is using the DNA from members of their "Indigenous Americas" reference panel. Unlike with other panels, they aren't necessarily using all of the DNA results of the panel members, but only the portion meeting certain criteria. (See the Ethnicity Estimate 2019 White Paper at https://www.ancestrycdn.com/dna/stat...hite_paper.pdf.)

    What's unclear to me is whether when members of a reference panel had DNA from more than one indigenous region, were they counted for all of them or only one? The reason it isn't clear is that Ancestry sees each of the regions as completely separate, so that if one person has "Indigenous Americas - North" and a match has "Indigenous Americas - Mexico", these represent different "ethnicities". So if you have, say, "Indigenous Americas - North" and your match has "Indigenous Americas - Mexico", unless the match elected to show all ethnicities you would have no way of knowing this. Even if you have "Indigenous Americas - Mexico" and your match has "Indigenous Americas - Yucatan", you still would not know. Apparently, these never overlap.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    They don't seem to be counting German as English for me, but partly as French. I still get 26.3% "Germanic", which is about 10% less than my paper trail shows. I actually get no English at LivingDNA, but instead I have 12.6% "Ireland" and 7.7% "Northwest Scotland".

    This is a huge contrast from Ancestry, which gives me 73% "England, Wales and Northwestern Europe", and only 10% "Germanic Europe". On the other hand, Ancestry is now reporting 14% "Ireland and Scotland", which is obviously less than LivingDNA's total for these two together -- 20.3%.

    LivingDNA gives me an ancestry that AncestryDNA doesn't "see" at all: 45.5% "France". I actually do have some French ancestry, but only about 3.1% on paper. However, I have an additional 6.25% Alsatian from my maternal grandmother's paternal grandmother, which certainly might be identified as part of this region (and my 2nd great grandmother's birthplace is, after all, in France). There's also 1.2% Swiss that could test as "France", although it's from a German-speaking region. Together this still only accounts for a bit more than 10%, so obviously some other ancestries are being identified as part of "France" here. As I said, some of my German and even more of my British. (Technically, I don't know whether I have any English; my known "British" ancestry is all Scottish and Scots-Irish.)

    LivingDNA also still "sees" at least some of my Menorcan Spanish ancestry, since they report 7.9% "Iberian Peninsula". My actual total for this ancestry, on paper, is 12.5%. However, on LivingDNA's region map the island of Menorca is shown as part of the "France" region, as is the island of Mallorca. So it's possible that my Menorcan ancestry is actually being split between "Iberian Peninsula" and "France". At least I'm not getting Ancestry's 0% for this ancestry (2018 update), or 1% (2019 update).

    The only ancestry that LivingDNA completely misses is Native American. This is in my tree at about 2% (more precisely, 1.95%), and appears as 2.1% at 23andMe, as "less than" 2% at FTDNA, and 1% at Ancestry in the 2019 update. In the 2018 update at Ancestry, it was 2%, so perhaps 1% had to vanish to make any room at all for the "Spanish". At least that makes it possible for me to see when one of my matches also has any Spanish, even if they've selected "Your DNA matches can only see the portion of your ethnic regions and Genetic Communities™ they have in common with you".

    Interestingly, the range never changed at all: it's still shown as 0-3%. What changed is how Ancestry is using the DNA from members of their "Indigenous Americas" reference panel. Unlike with other panels, they aren't necessarily using all of the DNA results of the panel members, but only the portion meeting certain criteria. (See the Ethnicity Estimate 2019 White Paper at https://www.ancestrycdn.com/dna/stat...hite_paper.pdf.)

    What's unclear to me is whether when members of a reference panel had DNA from more than one indigenous region, were they counted for all of them or only one? The reason it isn't clear is that Ancestry sees each of the regions as completely separate, so that if one person has "Indigenous Americas - North" and a match has "Indigenous Americas - Mexico", these represent different "ethnicities". So if you have, say, "Indigenous Americas - North" and your match has "Indigenous Americas - Mexico", unless the match elected to show all ethnicities you would have no way of knowing this. Even if you have "Indigenous Americas - Mexico" and your match has "Indigenous Americas - Yucatan", you still would not know. Apparently, these never overlap.
    A lot of people lately seem to either have their German show up correctly on LivingDNA or attributed as French (or as a couple of posts ago, even have French classified as German).

    For some reason it's just missing mine entirely (and my mother's, who should be about 25%; my dad has a little too, but sufficiently less that it's not as remarkable that his gets missed).

    I'm very curious if when they eventually (one hopes, knock on wood) take my German ancestry out of what is being counted as English if that changes my regions significantly. It seems like it's got to be distorting them somewhat.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    A lot of people lately seem to either have their German show up correctly on LivingDNA or attributed as French (or as a couple of posts ago, even have French classified as German).

    For some reason it's just missing mine entirely (and my mother's, who should be about 25%; my dad has a little too, but sufficiently less that it's not as remarkable that his gets missed).

    I'm very curious if when they eventually (one hopes, knock on wood) take my German ancestry out of what is being counted as English if that changes my regions significantly. It seems like it's got to be distorting them somewhat.

    I agree and don’t know where my French is either. Should be near 25%, but with my swab test I end up with 42.2% EE, 9.3% Finnish 5.8% Baltic, 19.2% Germanic, 10.4% Scandinavian and 13.1% Irish and Scottish.

    Based on what I’m learning about north German, Danish, Scottish and Irish populations I wouldn’t be surprised if the assigned Irish/Scottish is misplaced something North Sea-ish. Perhaps the French is in the Germanic category or they are so unconfident in France that it’s skewing my EE category to something unreasonable, at least that was what their explanation to me was.

    The weird thing is, I did an upload with 23andMe and AncestryDNA and I get Iberian as a proxy for France. They just seem so unsure of assignments when I compare my swab to my uploads that it leaves me with little confidence in what they’re doing.

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by daragon39 View Post
    So I have been chatting with someone over at Living DNA and here is what I learned.
    The Irish Update still hasn't officially happened, they are only in year 3 of 5 of the project.
    The anticipated new ethnicity update is scheduled to happen around New Years time.
    If/when that update comes will it be free or have to be purchased?

    I've been tested on the Orion chip; my father on the initial release of Sirius chip. I then uploaded FTDNA raw data for me and both parents and there's something sticking out with regard to the Irish panel.

    With the FTDNA uploads there's some allotments to Ireland that were not initially available with the days of Orion or even early Sirius, but all of a sudden I pay for another product (interpretation of uploaded data) and it shows up - seems like they aren't in the habit of automatically updating results (original Orion or early Sirius profiles) or doing it for free at least.
    Ich verstehe nicht.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telfermagne View Post
    If/when that update comes will it be free or have to be purchased?

    I've been tested on the Orion chip; my father on the initial release of Sirius chip. I then uploaded FTDNA raw data for me and both parents and there's something sticking out with regard to the Irish panel.

    With the FTDNA uploads there's some allotments to Ireland that were not initially available with the days of Orion or even early Sirius, but all of a sudden I pay for another product (interpretation of uploaded data) and it shows up - seems like they aren't in the habit of automatically updating results (original Orion or early Sirius profiles) or doing it for free at least.
    If you paid for your results the upgrade should be free. If they decide to charge people for it then they would be opening themselves up to potential legal issues.

  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by daragon39 View Post
    If you paid for your results the upgrade should be free. If they decide to charge people for it then they would be opening themselves up to potential legal issues.
    I definitely paid for results (I'm an Orion customer, my father is an early Sirius release customer), but have never received any update - the only reason I was able to be compared to the Irish panel at all was because I purchased an additional product (interpretation of FTDNA raw data).
    Ich verstehe nicht.

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  12. #17
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    It seems that there will be a webinar on Tuesday (28th Jan) where they will be demoing an ancestry update. Hopefully, they will give us a date on when everyone's results will be updated.

    "Senior Product Manager, Katie Welka, will be hosting an open Living DNA release announcement webinar about an exciting update that is happening very soon."
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 01-25-2020 at 06:07 PM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

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  14. #18
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    It'll be so exciting I'll still be 100% British and Irish
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  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    It'll be so exciting I'll still be 100% British and Irish
    Maybe and maybe not, you might lose half a percent!

    These are the five results I've gotten from Living DNA from my Orion test in 2017, Sirius test, then beta updates on both, then my recent data file upload

    Robert ------------- Orion 2017 - Sirius 12/12/18 - Orion 2/13/19 - Sirius 4/30/19 - FTDNA Data 12/1/19
    Great Britain and Ireland -- 98.7% ---100.0% ------ 100.0% ----------- 100.0% ----- 97.8%
    Northwest Scotland -------- 20.8% ---- 23.0% ------- 12.5% ----------- 13.8% ------- 14.8%
    Aberdeenshire --------------- 6.9% ---- 14.6% --------- 3.7% ----------- 7.0% --------- 6.9%
    SW Scotland & N. Ireland --- 1.3% ----- 2.5% ---------------------------- 2.7% --------- 1.6%
    Ireland ------------------------ 6.1% --- 37.6% -------- 31.1% ----------- 28.4% ------- 28.4%
    Northumbria ------------------ 3.9% ---------------------------------------- 1.2% ----------------
    Northwest England ---------- 10.0% ---- 3.5% --------------------------------------------- 1.6%
    Cumbria ---------------------------------------------------- 3.8% ----------- 1.9% --------- 1.9%
    North Yorkshire --------------- 5.5% ---- 2.8% ----------------------------- 1.8% ---------------
    South Yorkshire --------------- 4.7% ---- 6.4% ---------- 6.9% ----------- 10.1% ------ 12.2%
    North Wales ------------------- 2.9% ---------------------- 1.9% ----------------------------------
    South Wales ------------------- 9.0% ---- 5.8% ---------- 4.8% ----------- 8.7% --------- 8.4%
    South Wales Border ---------------------- 1.9% ----------------------------------------------------
    South Central England -------- 1.7% --------------------- 23.9% ---------- 23.0% ------- 20.6%
    Devon -------------------------- 1.3% ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Cornwall ------------------------ 2.7% --------------------- 3.8% ----------------------------------
    Southeast England ------------ 21.8% --- 1.9% ---------- 7.4% ----------- 1.3% --------- 1.3%
    Scandinavia --------------------- 1.3% -------------------------------------------------------- 2.2%
    Europe West -------------------- 0.0% --- 0.0% ----------- 0.0% ----------- 0.0% --------- 0.0%
    Last edited by Robert1; 01-26-2020 at 12:19 AM.
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  18. #20
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    I guess we will wait and see, hopefully something positive.

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