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Thread: The theory of Gaulish colonists in early or Iron Age Britain

  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    I don't think distances alone is a good way to judge that though, I have obviously poor distances to Irish samples but for some reason they work pretty well for my data. My belief is that N/NW Europeans and their ancestors are too similar for G25 and that the end result of using multiple of such populations as references isn't very satisfactory. This isn't surprising as there's a lot of common DNA in that part of the continent. qpAdm might be a better tool
    May be that's the case indeed!!

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  3. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    If you say so. I think of STR220 as pretty Germanic, but not so much western... and R31 as more western/Saxon/Viking like, but who knows?

    See below:
    Attachment 35911
    This is my result using your model. Interesting to compare myself to the Gaelic samples. I left it at the default setting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    May be that's the case indeed!!
    I really do think he is right about that
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  7. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    I really do think he is right about that
    Until now Jessie and I for example come very close in G25 only the Celtic vs Germanic seems to make a decisive difference as it is based on more recent mutations.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Until now Jessie and I for example come very close in G25 only the Celtic vs Germanic seems to make a decisive difference as it is based on more recent mutations.....
    FI there is no notion of "recent mutation" in autosomal genetics (unless maybe if rare alleles are used, which is not the case afaik). The only difference between Celtic vs Germanic and the casual G25 is the spreadsheet used.
    En North alom, de North venom
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  10. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    FI there is no notion of "recent mutation" in autosomal genetics (unless maybe if rare alleles are used, which is not the case afaik). The only difference between Celtic vs Germanic and the casual G25 is the spreadsheet used.
    IMO this was a remark of the developer himself (in my words) the difference between G25 en Celtic vs Germanic is that in the hairsplitting job of the NW European amalgam the Celtic vs Germanic is more iron age and beyond ( 'recent'

    In G25 is Jessie almost as Anglo-Saxon as I am, in the Celtic vs Germanic she is firmly Irish and I firmly Germanic.

    But correct t me If I'm wrong.

  11. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    IMO this was a remark of the developer himself (in my words) the difference between G25 en Celtic vs Germanic is that in the hairsplitting job of the NW European amalgam the Celtic vs Germanic is more iron age and beyond ( 'recent'

    In G25 is Jessie almost as Anglo-Saxon as I am, in the Celtic vs Germanic she is firmly Irish and I firmly Germanic.

    But correct t me If I'm wrong.
    In my understanding of your words, that was wrong. But, well, it's not a tragedy!
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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  13. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    In my understanding of your words, that was wrong. But, well, it's not a tragedy!
    Angles please explain why, because my impression is that in the case of jessie and the finn's they are mostly very close in G25 and not in GvC....so enlighten me.
    Last edited by Finn; 02-02-2020 at 08:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Angles please explain why, because my impression is that in the case of jessie and the finn's they are mostly very close in G25 and not in GvC....so enlighten me.
    When you talk about "young mutation", I assume you mean that a certain minor allele has appeared in a group recently. In fact, I do not see what other meaning could be given to these words, because an allele is in itself neither old nor young. Now, how to estimate the date of appearance of a minor allele in a group? By deducing from its frequency an estimate of the genetic drift it has suffered? Perhaps. But I would like to eat my hat if such considerations guided the development of the PCA Celtic vs Germanic. No, it was simply drawn up on a list of references in accordance with its purpose, and that has nothing to do with any notion of "young mutation". As for the Finn-Jessie case, I have no idea. Just a guess: I don't remember which are the eigenvalues of C vs G, but I'm ready to bet that this PCA is what I call a "flat PCA", which means that the variability is not concentrated on the 2 first PCs, but is diluted on the 4, or 5 (or more?) first PCs. In such a case the map PC1-PC2 is not completely informative, but I'm sure that you look only to this map as you say that you're not close to Jessie, right? You could perhaps compute some distances? But as I said, it's just a guess, and for this also I will eat my hat if I happen to be wrong.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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  16. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    When you talk about "young mutation", I assume you mean that a certain minor allele has appeared in a group recently. In fact, I do not see what other meaning could be given to these words, because an allele is in itself neither old nor young. Now, how to estimate the date of appearance of a minor allele in a group? By deducing from its frequency an estimate of the genetic drift it has suffered? Perhaps. But I would like to eat my hat if such considerations guided the development of the PCA Celtic vs Germanic. No, it was simply drawn up on a list of references in accordance with its purpose, and that has nothing to do with any notion of "young mutation". As for the Finn-Jessie case, I have no idea. Just a guess: I don't remember which are the eigenvalues of C vs G, but I'm ready to bet that this PCA is what I call a "flat PCA", which means that the variability is not concentrated on the 2 first PCs, but is diluted on the 4, or 5 (or more?) first PCs. In such a case the map PC1-PC2 is not completely informative, but I'm sure that you look only to this map as you say that you're not close to Jessie, right? You could perhaps compute some distances? But as I said, it's just a guess, and for this also I will eat my hat if I happen to be wrong.
    Thanks for the explanation. From what I can remember David said the Celtic vs Germanic measures British and Irish specific drift.

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